This has been an interesting read and lots of discussion around polymeric thrust pads. I have used IGUS materials and bushings in the past (in my professional life). The igus materials might be a good candidate for a thrust pad as they are decently tough and have lubricative properties (not just low friction like Teflon, etc...). Part of their lubricative properties lessens the criticality of ball bearing surface finish as the IGUS material effectively deposits into the surface imperfections (IGUS actually recommends against polished shafts) and gats its long wearing and dry lubrication thusly.
Best of all, they are generous with free samples!
Best of all, they are generous with free samples!
One thing I like about IGUS materials is they work equally well dry or in oil, so you can do whatever you need with the sleeve and not worry about the thrust pad. The IGUS bushes also work well for sleeves but it's hard to control the clearance as closely as you might like. Concentricity can also be a concern.
What Conrad said about using plastics for bushings is very true. I'd rather use a good bearing bronze and hone it to size using the old 0.001 per inch of shaft diameter rule of thumb. Plastic needs to be reamed or bored to size and can be unstable.
So use a good bearing bronze honed to size and flood the bearing with something like AW32 turbine oil. Delrin pad in the bottom with a hardened steel ball in the spindle is about as good as it gets.
Don't forget the effect that the steel ball on the Delrin pad has on vibration mitigation, the Delrin pad acts like a brick wall compared to a hard thrust pad as far as passing noise/vibration.
BillWojo
So use a good bearing bronze honed to size and flood the bearing with something like AW32 turbine oil. Delrin pad in the bottom with a hardened steel ball in the spindle is about as good as it gets.
Don't forget the effect that the steel ball on the Delrin pad has on vibration mitigation, the Delrin pad acts like a brick wall compared to a hard thrust pad as far as passing noise/vibration.
BillWojo
When using Thermoplastics as sacrificial parts and producing a Bush.
To achieve the Spindle/Bush interface, with a spacing that has a ideal tolerance between the parts, experience gained from one design produced for a selection of TT's, has shown the individual TT is best work on only.
The TT Spindles OD and Bearing Housing ID will be the control for the Bush Part machining. When the Bush is a interference fit, when inserted into the Housing the Ream of the Bushes can happen.
A past experience has shown when a Donor TT, has a part produced, the parts produced to the same dimension and used on other 'same model' TT's can have a difference to how the New and Original parts interface.
I am yet to encounter a serviced or modified bearing that has not shown a perceivable change to the sonic, that is described a not being a improvement.
Combine a improved bearing, with a utilisation of a Densified Wood as a TT's Plinth / Chassis and the benefits of the two new controls methods for energies produced from a TT's function is very impressive.
To achieve the Spindle/Bush interface, with a spacing that has a ideal tolerance between the parts, experience gained from one design produced for a selection of TT's, has shown the individual TT is best work on only.
The TT Spindles OD and Bearing Housing ID will be the control for the Bush Part machining. When the Bush is a interference fit, when inserted into the Housing the Ream of the Bushes can happen.
A past experience has shown when a Donor TT, has a part produced, the parts produced to the same dimension and used on other 'same model' TT's can have a difference to how the New and Original parts interface.
I am yet to encounter a serviced or modified bearing that has not shown a perceivable change to the sonic, that is described a not being a improvement.
Combine a improved bearing, with a utilisation of a Densified Wood as a TT's Plinth / Chassis and the benefits of the two new controls methods for energies produced from a TT's function is very impressive.
Dear JohnnoG,
I cannot make any sense of your posts and I doubt I am the only one. Please write in clear English, without spurious capitalisation. This thread was started with the intention of discussing sources for the ball bearing habitually used to support a turntable platter's weight. Your lengthy interjections appear only to interrupt the flow of informative discussion.
I cannot make any sense of your posts and I doubt I am the only one. Please write in clear English, without spurious capitalisation. This thread was started with the intention of discussing sources for the ball bearing habitually used to support a turntable platter's weight. Your lengthy interjections appear only to interrupt the flow of informative discussion.
Dear @EC8010 You are not the OP and a very late contributor to a Thread that has been created a year ago.
The Thread was started with the inquiry from an individual restoring old TT's. The subject of restoring old TT's will not be limited to a Ball only. The thread went of the topic of discussing balls within a month of it commencing.
Your unnecessary comments on my posts are not heeded.
Start your own thread and I assure you I will not contribute.
The Thread was started with the inquiry from an individual restoring old TT's. The subject of restoring old TT's will not be limited to a Ball only. The thread went of the topic of discussing balls within a month of it commencing.
Your unnecessary comments on my posts are not heeded.
Start your own thread and I assure you I will not contribute.
In dk we have a company that makes ceramic bearings, I know they make stuff for pro cycling also. Its name is ceramicspeed
Any idea where to locate a piece that I could cut a few thrust plates out of? The catalog is bewildering!
Sometimes you can get a sample, typically a rod of a few inches length. Or, PM me some dimensions and I might be able to make them. The weather has finally warmed up enough to use the garage shop!
My existing thrust plates for which I used sapphire discs are merely 1-2mm thick and sit on top of the manufactures thrust plates. I use the stock steel ball for the Thornes TD-124 and a SiNi ball in an inverted arrangement for a VPI style. Seems fine but I was thinking the soft surface might be preferable. I see some Torlon 1mm thick material I could just punch a piece the right diameter and just use that. The IGUS stuff seems perfect.
Also see some Torlon balls available in the correct diameters. Any thoughts about using a plastic ball against a hard thrust surface?
Sorry to hijack this thread
Also see some Torlon balls available in the correct diameters. Any thoughts about using a plastic ball against a hard thrust surface?
Sorry to hijack this thread
In conversations taken part in, I have not been discussing the use of a Thermoplastic as a Ball. The usual discussion is to select the sacrificial parts produced from materials that are offering a very low coefficient of friction when in contact.
The Sapphire Pad and SiNi Ball seems to fit perfect for the role of a Low Friction Interface.
On the other side, there are also combinations of materials used as the sacrificial parts, that create a variance to a attenuation, this can be detected as having a audible influence.
I am familiar with one experiment having taken place where two same model TT's are used.
The experiment started with using Torlon and SiNi in comparison to the other Models original parts. The TT with original parts was quickly discovered to be a detractor and the modified TT was much preferred.
The experiment evolved to the original parts TT, having sacrificial Parts produced from Lignum Vitae.
When the same TT Model >Tonearm >Cart', is mounted on the same Support Structure in the same P'holz Plinth.
The outcome of comparisons between Thermoplastic and Lignum Vitae are reported on, that differences are detected in the sonic produced by each, and each has their own influence and unique attraction.
The Sapphire Pad and SiNi Ball seems to fit perfect for the role of a Low Friction Interface.
On the other side, there are also combinations of materials used as the sacrificial parts, that create a variance to a attenuation, this can be detected as having a audible influence.
I am familiar with one experiment having taken place where two same model TT's are used.
The experiment started with using Torlon and SiNi in comparison to the other Models original parts. The TT with original parts was quickly discovered to be a detractor and the modified TT was much preferred.
The experiment evolved to the original parts TT, having sacrificial Parts produced from Lignum Vitae.
When the same TT Model >Tonearm >Cart', is mounted on the same Support Structure in the same P'holz Plinth.
The outcome of comparisons between Thermoplastic and Lignum Vitae are reported on, that differences are detected in the sonic produced by each, and each has their own influence and unique attraction.
I'm just wondering if a Torlon ball against the hard plate might have benefits as well as very easy replacement during maintenance. A pack of 10 are about $5.00 USD from McMaster-Carr.
@ WntrMute2, If you visit Lenco Heaven (LH) and Google Search your inquiry using LH there is a good chance you will find a Thread that has a information that is containing information that is close to your inquiry.
For the record, LH is a Forum that has many bearing servicing and modifications covered. Many ideas for a bearing, either within the housing or external of the housing, that are discussed on other Forums are likely to have the concept seen originated on LH.
The following is one members comments on using Torlon for 11 Years and not needing to replace any parts at the time of inspecting for servicing. It does suggest if the correct Spec' of Torlon is selected as a Ball, there will not be too much wear over a short period on the Sacrificial Part.
For the record, LH is a Forum that has many bearing servicing and modifications covered. Many ideas for a bearing, either within the housing or external of the housing, that are discussed on other Forums are likely to have the concept seen originated on LH.
The following is one members comments on using Torlon for 11 Years and not needing to replace any parts at the time of inspecting for servicing. It does suggest if the correct Spec' of Torlon is selected as a Ball, there will not be too much wear over a short period on the Sacrificial Part.
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I have a NSC built by the hand of Nigel, when used, it is hooked up to a PTP Solid Nine. The NSC does have a very welcome impact on the SQ.
I'll Zip It Now 🤐, the Talk is not in the Ball Park.
I'll Zip It Now 🤐, the Talk is not in the Ball Park.
If you fool with bearings and thrust plates, this is an excellent free tool to have:
https://www.vinksda.com/toolkit-mechanical-calculations/hertz-contact-stress-calculations/
https://www.vinksda.com/toolkit-mechanical-calculations/hertz-contact-stress-calculations/
