Some experience with PT2399: This is not a reverberation, but a simple echo unit. Based on a simple 1bit algorithm it was designed for karaoke al cheapo stuff and delivers mediocre results. Echo sound degrades quickly with number of echos, this is not worth the effort imho. Nonetheless a plethora of stomp boxes use these.
FV1 from Spinsemi plays in another league. Designed by late Steve Barr it incorporates a DSP and 16bit audio interface. The reverberation beats any spring reverberation imho combined with excellent SNR. I use these in my designs for years and can recommend them.
FV1 from Spinsemi plays in another league. Designed by late Steve Barr it incorporates a DSP and 16bit audio interface. The reverberation beats any spring reverberation imho combined with excellent SNR. I use these in my designs for years and can recommend them.
A link to this appeared in my email box this morning from Reverb. I have purchased stuff from them in the past, so maybe it was just random, or maybe they think I have lots of money. This is what you build when you have already released a few successful albums also have a successful graphic arts / photography career and have a fat budget. He has done a few of these studio reveals over the years, and it just keeps expanding.
For some reason (Ok, my mind likes to "wander") I'm imagining "EuroRack" modules specifically for a guitar amplifier design. The big / heavy stuff chassis sits in the bottom of the speaker cab, Leslie style. That chassis provides a new voltage to the +5, +/- 15 ER std; +300.
So you could have your tube "infini-gain" ER guitar input module. An ER tone stack module, be it Fender, Marshall, Boogie, Ampeg, Baxandall, Graphic. There could be rack modules with various active / passive non-linear elements to drive, putting some distortion character on the signal.
A tube restorer module that cleanly brings tube signal levels back down to ordinary ER audio values and back up to the - new standard - tube levels. (Allows side chaining ordinary ER modules, otherwise known as an effects loop output). A reed-relay module to do A-B analog signal chain switching via foot switch control.
A signal envelope module. A tube VCA module, whose VC goes well into the audio range. A final audio "post" high / low level signal mixer / output stage driver module, that could be built in different flavors of phase inverter design.
A module that takes a CV input and modulates the 300V B+ (might need some special connectors for that one..., or it could act via hard wired signal on the whole B+ coming from the big chassis downstairs) A module that takes CV, modulates the tube heater voltage; I'm sure there's many who'd think of more crazy things for their "ER guitar module product line". I thought I saw they already have an oscilloscope module.
Something like that would bring guitar amping into the realm of patch bay analog synth sound design. I've never heard of such a thing... Maybe good for the studio, not so good for the road? One would think the patch cables would at least stay in place between shows...especially with a road case cover over it.
So you could have your tube "infini-gain" ER guitar input module. An ER tone stack module, be it Fender, Marshall, Boogie, Ampeg, Baxandall, Graphic. There could be rack modules with various active / passive non-linear elements to drive, putting some distortion character on the signal.
A tube restorer module that cleanly brings tube signal levels back down to ordinary ER audio values and back up to the - new standard - tube levels. (Allows side chaining ordinary ER modules, otherwise known as an effects loop output). A reed-relay module to do A-B analog signal chain switching via foot switch control.
A signal envelope module. A tube VCA module, whose VC goes well into the audio range. A final audio "post" high / low level signal mixer / output stage driver module, that could be built in different flavors of phase inverter design.
A module that takes a CV input and modulates the 300V B+ (might need some special connectors for that one..., or it could act via hard wired signal on the whole B+ coming from the big chassis downstairs) A module that takes CV, modulates the tube heater voltage; I'm sure there's many who'd think of more crazy things for their "ER guitar module product line". I thought I saw they already have an oscilloscope module.
Something like that would bring guitar amping into the realm of patch bay analog synth sound design. I've never heard of such a thing... Maybe good for the studio, not so good for the road? One would think the patch cables would at least stay in place between shows...especially with a road case cover over it.
FS-1
http://www.spinsemi.com/Products/datasheets/spn1001/FV-1.pdf
Bought a couple of these. Maybe a companion board with a couple more chips on it.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PT2399-Microphone-Reverb-Plate-Reverberation-Board-No-Preamplifier-Function/183154226908?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
The PT2399 can sound not too bad, there are a few sections with just reverb.
Not bad sounding one but with four chips.
https://scientificguitarist.wixsite.com/home/t60-reverberator
http://www.spinsemi.com/Products/datasheets/spn1001/FV-1.pdf
Bought a couple of these. Maybe a companion board with a couple more chips on it.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PT2399-Microphone-Reverb-Plate-Reverberation-Board-No-Preamplifier-Function/183154226908?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
The PT2399 can sound not too bad, there are a few sections with just reverb.
Not bad sounding one but with four chips.
https://scientificguitarist.wixsite.com/home/t60-reverberator
At $2.99 / board or whatever from China, you could "economically" run several in parallel at slightly different delay settings. Imagining a chip-amp "FR" style guitar cab with like 4-8 speakers, 4-8 channels with each having its own adjustable delay. How FAT would that sound? It's the classic Tom Scholz "Rockman" box use of delays to approach speaker stacks with larger physical distances between.
If the speakers were in two columns, you could use the delays to point the sound away from, say, an adjacent wall and more toward center stage. I'd bet it'd work just like a phased-array radar. A post-stomp amp box with just a on/off switch and a joystick to steer the sound direction up/down left/right..
These would be short delays, perhaps the quality of that chip's sound would hold in such an application.
Sound improves with short delays. Perhaps I would do more with these chips if it would provide real short delays, enabling chorus, slapback echos etc.
But the settable range looks too restricted for such applications. Smaller delay differences with multiple units may be doable anyway.
But the settable range looks too restricted for such applications. Smaller delay differences with multiple units may be doable anyway.
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You mean the delay isnt linear from none out to the longest it can do, with the sweep of a pot control? How could they!
You will find a list of settings for different delays in the data sheet. Considering its low price there is no harm to do some experiments with these on your own.
In the past I did some pcb layouts with these as I was intrigued by the low price as well. I am by no means a "golden ear", but the restricted sound quality always has been obvious to me, so I lost interest...
In the past I did some pcb layouts with these as I was intrigued by the low price as well. I am by no means a "golden ear", but the restricted sound quality always has been obvious to me, so I lost interest...
My current synthesizer rack is a mismatched collection of "stuff." There are a bunch of the usual Eurorack modules and three Behringer complete synthesizers that are "eurorack compatible" with a fourth still in its box since there is no more room in the rack. In addition to the euro-sized stuff there is a Behringer Deepmind 12 shallow but 9.5 inches tall 19 inch rack mount synth, and a Roland JV880 rack mount that's 14 inches deep but 1.75 inches tall rack mount synth. I have a finished and tested MFOS Ultimate synth whose panel is 9 X 14 inches, a MFOS Ultimate Exxpander that's 7 X 9 inches, my "blue" synth that's 11 X 17 inches, the Tubelab Multi Synth that's 4 X 6.5 inches, a T-Synth kit and a Progue kit that are partially built, a few more oddballs and a big reverb tank.
I have also been working on a vacuum tube based music synth that is still in the breadboarding stage. It will never fit into Eurorack format, so there will also be some medium format stuff. My current power supply is a mish mash of wall warts Meanwell SMPS's and linear regulators. There will likely be some HV stuff for the tubes, which will result in a consolidation of all the 12 volt wall warts.
I will probably need to create some sort of signal and CV patch bay to accommodate the different interface standards. There are different sized jacks AND different voltages, as well as different absolute pitches within the 1V/oct synth standard.
I dug through a bunch of old notes and notebooks and have not found the schematic for my vacuum tube VCA. I'm beginning to think it would be easier to trace it. It can use just about every different TV IF amp tube I tried, but I settled on the 6KT6 since I have several hundred of them.
I have also been working on a vacuum tube based music synth that is still in the breadboarding stage. It will never fit into Eurorack format, so there will also be some medium format stuff. My current power supply is a mish mash of wall warts Meanwell SMPS's and linear regulators. There will likely be some HV stuff for the tubes, which will result in a consolidation of all the 12 volt wall warts.
I will probably need to create some sort of signal and CV patch bay to accommodate the different interface standards. There are different sized jacks AND different voltages, as well as different absolute pitches within the 1V/oct synth standard.
I dug through a bunch of old notes and notebooks and have not found the schematic for my vacuum tube VCA. I'm beginning to think it would be easier to trace it. It can use just about every different TV IF amp tube I tried, but I settled on the 6KT6 since I have several hundred of them.
The boards are the bare minimum you need to use the chip. They are cheap enough (in for a penny in for five modules) that you can daisy chain them together, send signals back to other modules, adjusting time values and levels. Once happy you could bundle them together or even do your own board. Not a fan of what the guy did to show off his creation, more an example of putting a number of delays a box.
I remember watching this video back when it came out and even toying with the idea of building one. I have been following his videos for years since he was doing live looping with Ableton Live, which I was also tinkering with. There were no details of how it was built, only that "his brother built it." I looked in my "synth stuff' box and sure enough I have several of those PT2399 boards. I was also tinkering with some cheap ISD voice storage boards too. Both of these deliver an "acceptable" to poor rendition of the original signal.
The Tsunami Wav Trigger board from Sparkfun can store lots of samples and play them back polyphonically under MIDI control, but these seem to have gone through a redesign or two accompanied by major price increases since I got mine a few years ago. It does anything from a DIY Mellotron to a MIDI drum box quite well.
The Tsunami Wav Trigger board from Sparkfun can store lots of samples and play them back polyphonically under MIDI control, but these seem to have gone through a redesign or two accompanied by major price increases since I got mine a few years ago. It does anything from a DIY Mellotron to a MIDI drum box quite well.
Anyone here a composer? Arranger? Songwriter? Synth programmer? Piano tech? Luthier? Multi-instrumentalist? Recording engineer? Mastering engineer? Producer?
Or is it mostly all builders of sound effects for electric guitars?
I mean, all of that stuff can be fun. From my own experience with midi guitar, the generality of what is possible can seem quite exciting at first. The question I have is how much of it will be highly musically useful in relation to what most audiences like to listen to? For example, the well-known pop mixing engineer, CLA, has a rack he takes with him. It has several pieces of gear in it. Each piece of gear is set to its "sweet" spot and never set to anything else. In the unusual case that a piece of gear has two sweet spots, then he gets two of them, and sets one to each sweet spot. From there he has a patch bay, where he can patch in or out the best sound any box in his collection can do, its "sweet spot."
Its things like that which make me wonder how much generality is really useful. Here I mean that any sound can probably be useful for some purpose, but not that many sounds end up in widely popular music. There are just too many other complications with composing, arranging, songwriting, producing, etc., that make sounds for the sake of sounds alone not necessarily useful in a finished composition. Anyone else wonder about that sort of thing? IOW, what features are worth doing for finished music's sake, and what features are done just because they can be done (not that there is anything wrong with any of that if its fun)?
Or is it mostly all builders of sound effects for electric guitars?
I mean, all of that stuff can be fun. From my own experience with midi guitar, the generality of what is possible can seem quite exciting at first. The question I have is how much of it will be highly musically useful in relation to what most audiences like to listen to? For example, the well-known pop mixing engineer, CLA, has a rack he takes with him. It has several pieces of gear in it. Each piece of gear is set to its "sweet" spot and never set to anything else. In the unusual case that a piece of gear has two sweet spots, then he gets two of them, and sets one to each sweet spot. From there he has a patch bay, where he can patch in or out the best sound any box in his collection can do, its "sweet spot."
Its things like that which make me wonder how much generality is really useful. Here I mean that any sound can probably be useful for some purpose, but not that many sounds end up in widely popular music. There are just too many other complications with composing, arranging, songwriting, producing, etc., that make sounds for the sake of sounds alone not necessarily useful in a finished composition. Anyone else wonder about that sort of thing? IOW, what features are worth doing for finished music's sake, and what features are done just because they can be done (not that there is anything wrong with any of that if its fun)?
I'm a player / singer of songs I personally like, anded with falling within my ability to play. Lots of songs I like simply beyond my capability. I cant play lead guitar worth beans, so the amp I'm making will probably be shown off by somebody else's playing. I'm hoping to get a musical tone and a musically usable sustain "ride" from it eventually. Just those two would bring some satisfaction, via an all tube amp design.
So, let's see I'm pretty sure I've heard someone push the head of an echoplex closer and closer to the record head as they were holding a note on their guitar. Pretty good one-off effect.
Standard Tremolo / Reverb - Pretty good one-off effect. No one uses it all night, there's foot switches.
There's the "autowah" of Garcia. Pretty good one-off effect. I think Zappa had an auto-notch, he maybe used once in a composition.
Then there's the good 'ol ring modulator, always an audience favorite. I'm pretty sure Hammer and Corea used them...once in an evening.
A Sustainiac built right in your guitar would be, er, another example of a one off effect for the evening's presentation.
A Vocoder, eh, pretty much the same deal. "Mr Blue Sky" - then what are you going to do with it? Sing through it all night?
What else can we pay a lot of money for, to use just one time in one part of one song. Maybe that "Sitar" sound is good through one whole song.
The loopers are pretty useful, but you also have to be really good with them; one wrong tap and you look like an idiot in front of other people. I havent figured out my Boss Loop Station yet, to where it could actually help me play in any way, shape or form.
I bought a cheap vocal harmonizer and I cant use it; my head cant tell which one of me to track pitch to and I end up not being able to sing at all. Then I turn it off and I can sing just fine again. I guess you could step on the switch after you get on key, to bring in a self-harmony - then shut it at the next note change.
Probably the only "all night" effect I can think of is the compressor / leveler. I'd use that as a set and forget effect on bass, guitar and vocals. I still remember the old ad addressed to the club owner about customers getting "blasted" out of the venue by...something to do with the mixer board's distortion.
Maybe a BBE "sonic maximizer" could be used straight up all night too. Thought I heard it flipped the phase of adjacent BP filter bands to "trick" your ear into accepting louder SPLs than it would otherwise tolerate. Just what a venue's customers need: "I cant tell I'm getting injured in here"...
I think this is a central point many guitar players including me are chasing.
To reach this goal there is a plethora of volume compressing technical stuff on the market
that may or may not make you reach your "perfect sound" - whatever that is.
By the time I was amazed by phaser, chorus, ring modulator, envelope wah-wahs and other stuff that later on I forgot as well.
So what remains is my bread and butter KISS setup with adjustable overdrive, the FV-1 reverberation and a soft clipping SS amp.
Sometimes a wah-pedal or an echo is nice to have. A real interesting thing may be the use of a looper.
So I am through with looking for some super-dupa guitars, found a pleasing tone using my simple acoustic guitar.
My personal sauce is in the fingers, bending, tapping, vibrato in the left hand and picking with the right hand.
But that's me, every guitar player must find his own approach to a satisfying tone.
And yes, for me this was a quite long road that has not ended yet, I am exploring my instrument every day.
That is what makes the guitar a fantastic musical instrument to me.
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Did sound for a couple of bands back in the day. Had a little bit of an electronic background, built a tube amp for someone but did not sound so I jumped down the rabbit hole. Jumped across to building a few guitars, mainly acoustic.
There's two fellows at the open mic I attend. Each has I believe the same compressor pedal in their Li-ion powered board they use every time. Acoustic guitars, I believe sound hole covered. They're older than me and dont move so fast and nor bend so easily, but put a glass slide in their hands - they are each expert and very experienced players.
Unsure how they discovered their Wampler EGOs. I wouldnt kick the sound they're getting outta bed; more like one to die for. So there's a piece in the constellation of what it takes to approach "perfect sound". Which I most often reference for electric guitar as that which comes after the lyric "You missed the starting gun"... Gee, I wonder what Gilmour used then.
They're nice and they're kidding with me already "You got that amp working yet?" "Nah, I'm waiting for the right tube to arrive in my mailbox". Which should be today!
At least for me, I am likely a "Jack of all trades, but master of none." I have probably done all of those tasks to some degree or another except for "Piano tech" unless changing reeds in a dead Wurlitzer electric piano counts. I have built several electric guitars, often with FX, synth circuits, and even a low powered tube amp and speaker built in. Some only long enough to be strung, tuned, and played for a few minutes before the reusable parts were removed and the body tossed into the dumpster at the Adult woodshop class that occurred at a local High School every Wednesday night for several years.
Composer, Arranger, Songwriter, Recording engineer, Producer and Synth programmer? Does throwing some notes down in a DAW stirring while bringing to a boil and seasoning to taste, rinse and repeat for each instrument, and then pressing the Play icon while twisting virtual knobs on a virtual synth count? Have you heard what passes for "music" today? Yes, I can plug one of my DIY guitars directly into the Focusrite, and call up a virtual amp and cabinet sim. I can jam to my own virtual music tracks and record the guitar if I so desire. There are hundreds of these "virtual musicians" all over YouTube. Some of them are actually good, but unlike them, the "stuff" that I create is not "ready for prime time," or even Youtube. Tinkering with guitars, amps and FX boxes is a diversion back to the real world.....you know the place where sticking your fingers into a guitar amp can give you a very real shock! It's also where I started when I was a young kid who got an electric guitar for Christmas one year, but no amp.
Two of us real people who worked together at Motorola attended a wood shop class at a local high school. Both of us went for the same reason, to make musical instruments and amps. It just happened that we both got our DIY instruments to the point where they were capable of making unamplified sound. An impromptu jam session broke out with a few other students singing along to a few old (mostly 60's Beatles) songs since they were the only songs we both knew. My guitar got some of the electronics installed and partially debugged. A DAW controller keypad for "launching clips" (musical note or chord sequences) goes in the large empty space at the top. It all got stuffed into a box when my career ended, and I moved 1200 miles North. It's still in that box. The other player went to the weekly class for a couple more years and make three very nice looking electric ukes.
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Your mention of the Pink Floyd song "Time" reminded me of a funny (to us at least) event that happened back in the late 80's. Motorola had some issues with voice intelligibility in their latest two-way radio. I designed the audio processing and amp circuit for that radio, which met all the specs. Motorola then hired an ex recording studio engineer / producer with a long list of credits and a couple gold records on his wall. His name was Bruce Staple (first hit on Google) and he worked for Motorola from 1983 to 1998. One of his first major projects was to build a dedicated acoustically dead pentangular room for the purpose of recreating the acoustical environment of a place where the radios had problems. He flew to these places with Nagra in hand. One of them was an automated assembly line that built cars. When his room was finished there was a grand unveiling event and lots of us went to see it. The Chrysler assembly line was loud and nasty sounding. We asked Bruce to play a CD with some sounds that would guarantee problems with intelligibility. The CD was DSOTM (Bruce had no clue what it was) and the requested track was Time. The clocks were awesome and LOUD. Bruce was not amused. Bruce wrote a short paper that got published detailing his acoustical work at Motorola. it used to be available on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Determining-Intelligibility-Transceiver-Customers-Environment/dp/0201634309
https://www.amazon.com/Determining-Intelligibility-Transceiver-Customers-Environment/dp/0201634309