Yes around 350 euro/m² without VAT and shipping.
And you need to consider losses of the sheet.
We use entirely Panzerholz B25. Sometimes even with 45° alignment between the layers - custom made.
KAISER acoustics. High definition acoustic products. Kawero
And you need to consider losses of the sheet.
We use entirely Panzerholz B25. Sometimes even with 45° alignment between the layers - custom made.
KAISER acoustics. High definition acoustic products. Kawero
I checked v.s. Valchromat
Panzerholz 30 mm has a weight of 4.2 g per sq.cm
Valchromat 30 mm has a weight of 2.2 g per sq.cm
Pretty big difference yes....
There are two different types of Panzerholz
Panzerholz B15: 1.8 mm thick beech veneers are compressed under high pressure to approx. 0.9 mm.
4 – 100 mm and thicker sheets glued together from partial thicknesses
Panzerholz B25: 1.0 mm thick beech veneers are compressed under high pressure to approx. 0.5 mm.
4 – 100 mm and thicker sheets glued together from partial thicknesses
Any idea which one is best to use?
Panzerholz 30 mm has a weight of 4.2 g per sq.cm
Valchromat 30 mm has a weight of 2.2 g per sq.cm
Pretty big difference yes....
There are two different types of Panzerholz
Panzerholz B15: 1.8 mm thick beech veneers are compressed under high pressure to approx. 0.9 mm.
4 – 100 mm and thicker sheets glued together from partial thicknesses
Panzerholz B25: 1.0 mm thick beech veneers are compressed under high pressure to approx. 0.5 mm.
4 – 100 mm and thicker sheets glued together from partial thicknesses
Any idea which one is best to use?
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There's also Lignofol (Compreg Plywood) in Poland and it's density is almost to the levels of Panzerholz.
https://pagedsklady.pl/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Lignofol.pdf
https://pagedsklady.pl/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Lignofol.pdf
Thx a lot, never heard of this, according to data sheet it is 1200Kg per cubic meter which should translate to 3.6g per square cm in 30 mm thickness, pretty close... not sure how damping characteristics compare between these materials
Is there any pricing info?
I am not so good in polish 😛
Not so sure about the prices now (due to huge spike in prices of timber products and not only), but a few years back (4-5) price was roughly 10000pln (~~2200eur)/m3. This plywood is made by factory only as a custom product with thickness 5-120mm and size 1000x1500mm as standard (other sizes and thicknesses are small% extra). You'd need to call them and ask for details.
I called factory out of curiosity and the price is now 12000pln/m3 + 23% tax. Minimum order is 2 plates 1000x1500 (they don't do other sizes) of any thickness (5-120mm). So 2 30mm plates would cost 1328pln that is ~~289eur (around 20% of Panzerholz price).
Sad news is that if you order now it'll be ready second quarter of 2022...
Sad news is that if you order now it'll be ready second quarter of 2022...
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Thx.... I sent them an email and heard nothing.....
Hmm, half a year lead-time for order of some simple products 😕
From another side.... I think the CNO-4 in Panzerholz will be "killer speakers" but not with the BMS 12N630, but two side mounted Revelator W28 in sealed enclosure and some equalization lift for the bottom end 😛
Building the CNO-4 in 30 mm Panzerhoz, the weight of the cabinet shell without bracing and drivers seem to add up to about 72 Kg, with 25mm Panzerehols about 60 Kg.
I think the internals can be somewhat thinner.... at some point I was thinking of using something completely different, using ceramic foam, the same as Audio Physic use extensively in their speakers, there is a German or Swiss vendor also doing these things. This ceramic foam has the stiffness close to diamond and has incredible absorption characteristics
Looking forward to hear about your build @noamgeller
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Not only Speaker Killer but also back killer 😉
Since I have found Panzerholz for the project. but it´s 45mm thick!
Outragesly thick but there is currently nothing else on the used market...
I will probably do a two box design... or else I wouldn´t be able to move them an inch.
Maybe like the Haileys from Yg-acoustics.
Since I have found Panzerholz for the project. but it´s 45mm thick!
Outragesly thick but there is currently nothing else on the used market...
I will probably do a two box design... or else I wouldn´t be able to move them an inch.
Maybe like the Haileys from Yg-acoustics.
Hallo Rainer
We meet yet again. My fascination of Panzerholz started after I got familier with your excellent desing, the Kawero Classic at HighEnd Munich.
I have a question regarding the gluing of the Panzerholz... until now I used Beko Allcon 10 with very good reaults. What are using if I may ask?
Ouch, with 45mm Panzerholz I calculate 108Kg plus internal panels, plus bracing, plus drivers 😱
Two box solution with 45mm Panzerholz should be 131Kg plus internal panels, plus bracing, plus drivers 😱
I guess 45mm Panzerholz for internal panels is way overkill, what is your plan here?
Well, way overkill is the name of this project anyways 😎
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Time to find a local rugby team to invite for free lifting exercizes
for me i would think max 25mm, maybe more for baffle?
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I would also choose 25mm if I bought new..
But I am getting 1,2m on 4m (45mm) for 300€ I cannot say no to that!
But I am getting 1,2m on 4m (45mm) for 300€ I cannot say no to that!
@noamgeller Looking at all the other constructions you made, these are really professional grade, master class... Looking forward to see what you can do here 😎
@noamgeller If you like imaging, make sure you avoid diffraction as much as possible. Like you did with the Magico Mini inspired build. 45mm panzerholz should provide room for some well placed large roundovers 🙂. While trying to keep baffle step at the design frequency of course.
Thank you very much Haraldo! it means very much to me. and I will do my best here is well... Now that you mention it... I am puzzled. I know of some pyramids type speakers.... but beautiful? mmm.... that´s going to be a tough one.
Yes in Theory at least... thou the speakers which I had with best imaging capabilities were the Amish (also from Troels) they were better then the Magico-Cno combo! and they have sharp edge. to be honest. the more time I spent with this hobby the more mysterious I find it.
