Hello all, is there anyone out there who have seen, heard or had any experience with Troels Gravesen Ellipticor-3
This is pretty interesting, based on extreme quality level drivers, very simple crossover, first order all the way but not quite 100% fully phase/time coherent (Tweeter is in reverse polarity)
This could be a good project
This is pretty interesting, based on extreme quality level drivers, very simple crossover, first order all the way but not quite 100% fully phase/time coherent (Tweeter is in reverse polarity)
This could be a good project
wow, I'd be tempted for a 6db time/phase (wire tweet in phase and put in separate box slid back) but leave out the subwoof/amp.
Oh.
wait a minute.
a single tweeter from madisound is $504.
Scanspeak Ellipticor D3004/5520-00 38mm Elliptical Dome Tweeter
too rich for my blood.
I'm out.
Oh.
wait a minute.
a single tweeter from madisound is $504.
Scanspeak Ellipticor D3004/5520-00 38mm Elliptical Dome Tweeter
too rich for my blood.
I'm out.
Yeah, Ellipticor-3 is €5500 + VAT
There's a similar design also with Seas Excel drivers ... I think it's about € 2800,-
+ Cost of cabinets
Troels Gravesen CNO-4
There's a similar design also with Seas Excel drivers ... I think it's about € 2800,-
+ Cost of cabinets
Troels Gravesen CNO-4
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Having been involved in the last 2-3 decades of DIY audio, it seems to me that the SEAS and Scan-Speak are becoming increasing fringe. Bear with me whilst I explain- I have no idea on their business, their number of employees or numbers of drive units that they produce per year, or their market strategy; but their products look to be increasingly niche.
Fewer sold -> higher prices per unit? We’re talking Accuton, Morel, Eton levels of pricing.
If you look on Scan-Speak Facebook page it seems a large market is boutique car audio in emerging markets as well as DIY. Have they lost some of their big old OEM customers?
I mean a 1” dome tweeter for $500?
I thought I was crazy when I bought a 1” dome for $150 a decade ago, when a good one could be found for $50.
Fewer sold -> higher prices per unit? We’re talking Accuton, Morel, Eton levels of pricing.
If you look on Scan-Speak Facebook page it seems a large market is boutique car audio in emerging markets as well as DIY. Have they lost some of their big old OEM customers?
I mean a 1” dome tweeter for $500?
I thought I was crazy when I bought a 1” dome for $150 a decade ago, when a good one could be found for $50.
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I would rather build these and add a subwoofer if I was looking for a DIY 3/4 way design: Open Source Monkey Box
Sound quality would be on same level if not better in my opinion and for a fraction of the cost.
However if cost is no object and you like the look of these then go for it.
Sound quality would be on same level if not better in my opinion and for a fraction of the cost.
However if cost is no object and you like the look of these then go for it.
I have heard the Ellipticor-3 at Troels home. All I can say it is a great speaker, but the rest of his system is also very, very good. I am use to smaller speakers, so I remember I might want a bit less bas volume, sometimes, but that can for sure be adjusted on the hypex amplifier. I sounds very coherent, transparent and natural.
I also have a set of the tweeter and the 18W Ellipticor woofer, and they are great drivers. In my opinion, also the performance wise top of the Scan Speak range. Especially the woofer is so natural to listen to. I could live with another Tweeter, f.x the D3004 line.
But prices are going crazy on all high-end stuff.... I guess fewer and fewer are interested in high-end audio, so prices are going up. Also it seams many customers expect prices have to be high to expect high performance. To few believe in there ears. And need reviewers to tell them what to buy. Luckily I still feel performance companies with reasonably prices can be found....
I also have a set of the tweeter and the 18W Ellipticor woofer, and they are great drivers. In my opinion, also the performance wise top of the Scan Speak range. Especially the woofer is so natural to listen to. I could live with another Tweeter, f.x the D3004 line.
But prices are going crazy on all high-end stuff.... I guess fewer and fewer are interested in high-end audio, so prices are going up. Also it seams many customers expect prices have to be high to expect high performance. To few believe in there ears. And need reviewers to tell them what to buy. Luckily I still feel performance companies with reasonably prices can be found....
I am stunned by pricing on some of the new Scan Speak drivers, the new revelator subs cost an arm and a leg ... and, are they really worth it?
Are their margins going out the window now?
When I heard Kii 3 with full bass tower, to me it was very unimpressive
sterile, no magic, lack of dynamics, bass was not really there ....
Down to the individual and their personal criteria for results / price (along with the depth of their pockets) so no single answer to that one.
Are their margins going out the window now?
You'd have to ask them.
In fairness it's expensive to precision manufacture components on a small scale in western Europe, and the intended / expected audience for such products is, in relative terms, small. So by definition, unless it's used as a loss-leader most of the high-price products are necessarily in the low-volume, high margin category since this is a commercial company that needs to make a reasonable return, not a philanthropic institution. Remember too, the price you pay at a dealer is usually significantly higher than the manufacturer actually sells it for. Ignoring direct sales, which is a completely different business model, in commercial audio the approximate rule of three is still fairly widespread, i.e. what the manufacturer sells it for is about 1/3 of the end retail price when it gets down the chain and everybody involved has their cut. For components, drivers etc. it's not normally as low as that, but the manufacturer certainly isn't receiving the full retail price.
Hmmm. I wonder if you are not looking for a rendering an 'honest'/ 'transparent' loudspeaker won't bring. First time i met this kind of thing was a disapointment until i get used to it. There is no judgement on this: preference are preference whatever they are a deviation from an 'absolute' or not.
It may be other things too as demonstration are usually short time and with musical material you don't know this well.
A lot of other factors can be deceptive too ( let aside technical matter as room acoustic, location of loudspeakers, other issues along the chain,...): how you feel, people trying to imply bias ( even unconsciously), how tired/available you are,...
I strongly believe you can judge only on things you know for a long time ( music you listened on many different systems and have an average idea on how they 'sound') and during medium/long timescale window (even a whole day listening is short to me).
It's not that short exposition time are bad but they give a kind of info which is different from the one you get with medium, long timeframe.
I've got issue to judge something without an overall idea all this differents pov brings.
I know i 'learned' some loudspeakers i disliked and finally found area(s) where they excelled. This didn't changed the fact i disliked them though...
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You seem to be hard to impress
Not by Kii 3
Not by Vandersteen Trio
Remind me not to invite you (lol)...
I been very impressed by Piega Master One and Piega Master Line Source 2, but looking at the price
Some of the line source designs are unreal good, and I think it's especially where DIY'ers can do magic... would be cool to listen to what you managed to do
I was very impressed by the small Acoustic Energy AE-1 active, small two way, cool what people can get out of some small boxes.
I Was very impressed by the small MTM two way designs I made 25 years ago, with some small 13cm Seas Woofers and a 1" tweeter... 8 liter volume with 44mm cabinet walls, three layers of asphalt damping, these small 2 ways weighed in at about 35Kg+, serious cabinet overkill. They are long gone now, and there are no photos that I can find...
Down to the individual and their personal criteria for results / price (along with the depth of their pockets) so no single answer to that one.
You'd have to ask them.
In fairness it's expensive to precision manufacture components on a small scale in western Europe, and the intended / expected audience for such products is, in relative terms, small. So by definition, unless it's used as a loss-leader most of the high-price products are necessarily in the low-volume, high margin category since this is a commercial company that needs to make a reasonable return, not a philanthropic institution. Remember too, the price you pay at a dealer is usually significantly higher than the manufacturer actually sells it for. Ignoring direct sales, which is a completely different business model, in commercial audio the approximate rule of three is still fairly widespread, i.e. what the manufacturer sells it for is about 1/3 of the end retail price when it gets down the chain and everybody involved has their cut. For components, drivers etc. it's not normally as low as that, but the manufacturer certainly isn't receiving the full retail price.
The Seas and Scan Speak drivers seem to be incredibly well engineerd, it's not for free the research they are doing .... so in all fairnes,, quality has a price
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Well... as others have pointed out, you do have to get used to this more neutral sound. I simply thought the bass towers seemed a little less impressive when it came to "weight"... but again... It did sound very good.
I liked the tweeter and combination with a 5" midrange. Found Heissmann Acoustics, which have a many great designs with the Seas DXT - then copied the design - added larger mid-woofers and lots of subwoofers. By this I now have that added foundation that I like, even though it's still very neutral - I'm happy