FWIW - My little boxes went into protection during 'normal' use several times. They should not be allowed to advertise these as 100W amplifiers, IMO. I won't be trying out the B200 based on my experience with the B100. Topping kind of let me down with these. I had high hopes. I cannot recommend them, because I am now of the opinion that they certainly do not "work as advertised" like I thought.
Cute little buggers... and they do sound nice ... but...
Overall two things (so far):
1 - Goes into protection at what I'd even consider moderate listening levels with less sensitive speakers. What I'm curious about is why they both go into protection almost at the exact (or exact) same time. I can't imagine the signal to both channels is perfectly 'stereo' with most of my music, but ... bass may be what's stressing the little guys out... and that's typically even between both channels. Thoughts appreciated.
2 - Sure they're cute, but when a fairly typical pair of speaker cables drags them off the rack... it's annoying. Anyone using spades will likely be quite irritated.
I can take some time after the holidays maybe to do some fairly basic measurements. I feel like it may be worthwhile to see if mine perform similarly to the measurements posted previously.
I admit that I'm a bit cynical in the fact that it would seem that Topping is using ASRs measurements as their specs. That is only at first glance. I did not do a line for line comparison. The format looks remarkably similar though. If that is the case, then both ASR and Topping have lost a lot of credibility with me.
Cute little buggers... and they do sound nice ... but...
Overall two things (so far):
1 - Goes into protection at what I'd even consider moderate listening levels with less sensitive speakers. What I'm curious about is why they both go into protection almost at the exact (or exact) same time. I can't imagine the signal to both channels is perfectly 'stereo' with most of my music, but ... bass may be what's stressing the little guys out... and that's typically even between both channels. Thoughts appreciated.
2 - Sure they're cute, but when a fairly typical pair of speaker cables drags them off the rack... it's annoying. Anyone using spades will likely be quite irritated.
I can take some time after the holidays maybe to do some fairly basic measurements. I feel like it may be worthwhile to see if mine perform similarly to the measurements posted previously.
I admit that I'm a bit cynical in the fact that it would seem that Topping is using ASRs measurements as their specs. That is only at first glance. I did not do a line for line comparison. The format looks remarkably similar though. If that is the case, then both ASR and Topping have lost a lot of credibility with me.
To be honest, Topping have made many blunders over the years. The first iteration of their L30 headphone amplifier have a static discharge shorting the unit and can potentially destroy your headphone. Their PA5 with poor thermal management of its encapsulation modules cause the device failed when using continuously. And now this one with their misleading advertisement about its power, but at least it does not destroy your speaker. Not to mention the alleged problem with their LA90D amplifier, again due to thermal management. So right now, I have little trust on Topping. Their DAC or Preamp is fine, but power device, never.
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But this is how most mixes are made wrt to bass - and bas is probably what causes the interruption. Bass is mostly mono-ish... so not surprising to me.
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What are people using these amps for - driving lamps?
There is a crest factor with music - at LEAST 10dB for brutal compressed music but more in the area of 13-18dB for real music. More for cinema or classical music. So it will do fine when you don't expect it to drive a low sensitivity speaker to serious levels.
It's a very special amp. Low gain options, lowish wattage, extreme clean. I will use it for technical purposes. It would shine as amp for Mid/High drivers or horn speakers. You can use for surround speakers which are close to your ears and need very little noise. Or any speaker close to you and a silent room.
But it's for sure not the universal everything perfect amp. Just get an AHB2 for that 🤓 (Oh yes, that's more expensive. And I had one channel die on me during speaker tests - they repaired it without questions, but it took a while).
Here is a measurement report of the B100 prepared by @PMA:
- https://pmacura.cz/FCT/topping_b100.htm
- https://pmacura.cz/FCT/topping_b100.htm
Have this AHB2 also and was planning to get B100s for dual mono setup instead of an additional more expensive AHB2 but looks like now need to shell out $1,200 for B200 😱Wolverine amp build costs ~$1600 and impressive performance. For a 4W amp a number of diy amps looks pretty good and seems much cheaper that this $600 B100. So what’s the benefit B100 in comparison?
Wolverin (US?)$ 1600? Even if you invest in a nice case etc. this seems to be on the high side.
Got some idea of price here:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/wolverine-ef3-3-power-amplifier-complete.417799/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/wolverine-ef3-3-power-amplifier-complete.417799/
Lowest noise of a power amp available. By far. But I'm not sure if there is a source which has low enough noise to 100% benefit from it ...
The speakers that I have need at least 20W amp drive as recommended by the manufacturer. Tried that level in the past with diy amps of that rating but sounded a bit thin at typical levels. Then switched to AHB2 and this shined with authority and the low distortion levels. Occasionally, I turn up drive to punchy levels (not particularly loud)
The point is re:B100, I don’t want something pretty at lowish power and then trips all over the place at higher drives
The point is re:B100, I don’t want something pretty at lowish power and then trips all over the place at higher drives
A mid-fi Yamaha met its power ratings without difficulty. Surely, a high-end amp should do the same.
Ed
Ed
Most people have no "feeling" about crest factor from music and what amplifiers really need to deliver for listening to music.
Brutal modern mastered music has a crest factor from 10-12dB, so roughly peaks are 3-4times higher as RMS values. That's already pretty dead and actually not that easy to achieve when it should still sound like music. Pink noise has about 10dB crest factor.
10dB crest factor needs 3,162 times the voltage or 10 times the power between peak and rms value.
Your 40W continuous amplifier needs to deliver 400W peaks to reproduce dense mixed music!
4000W for dynamic/live music and even more when you listen to unmixed signals during recording.
Of course it doesn't work that way - we have a maximum power of the amp and depending of the music it needs to deliver more or less rms power when turned up fully. But rms power is ALWAYS WAY smaller as the needed peak power!
Topping B100 with a low impedance, low sensitivity speaker will get into troubles - you need to buy at least the B200 in this case. But for more relaxed situations it will work just fine.
Therefore it's great to have all these measurements so we can determine the use cases - on measurements, not on "feelings".
p.s.: Amp power is widely over and underrated at the same time. Listening at good living room level (about 80-83dB) will often just need 1W or less on RMS power, peaks are no problem. Just rising to loud (>90dB) will use 10x the amplifier power with peaks >100W needed. Listening beyond that needs a speaker with good sensitivity and a high voltage amplifier to get enough dynamics to not run into power compression/clipping.
ATMOS is defined at 105dBSpl at the listeners position. A normal 1" HiFi Tweeter can already rarely deliver this level long term.
Interestingly during the era of mini-compos those Japanese products promote power specs as peak-music-power-output (PMPO) just to appear big sounding 😆
I am looking for something similar to AHB2 specs in B200s before making a decision for a more expensive product
Attachments
What Japanese products?
Topping, if that's who you are discussing, is a Chinese corporation.
I was talking about a bygone era re:mini compos 🙂
Now enter the Chinese with cute looking products. Maybe the B100 is tripping when the PMPO exceeds 100W?
Now enter the Chinese with cute looking products. Maybe the B100 is tripping when the PMPO exceeds 100W?
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The Federal Trade Commission and the infamous "RMS watt" enter the discussion.