Nuuk said:
Yep
And I also have problems with stopping to listen as most of you know...
Nuuk said:
Congratulations with your succes!
Nuuk said:
Build the pot in your gainclone! And please inform us of your results with the second supply...
Nuuk said:
I know everbody said the Gainclones were good but I wasn't expecting what I just heard. And where do the little s*ds get all that bass from?
Listening to a compilation CD I was trying to sum up the sound of the Gainclones when an Eva Cassidy track came on and I think that the Gainclones display the same sort of qualities. Delicate when they need to be but powerful when called for. Great clarity, silky smooth, timing spot on and very musical. And that after only my first session. I'm almost too excited to go to bed
Nice to hear you are so satisfied !
If you really want to be kicked away try "Beady Belle - Cewbeagappic"
Smoothness, stereo placing, atmosphere, rhytm, tightness...
Fedde
Slave obey, or smoke?
Slightly OT to this thread, but this where the chip/gurus are:
I'm considering buying a quantity of TDA7293s, to run in slave mode to drive some harder loads
(inc. Peerless XLS 12 inch: 3.5 ohms, hopefully with ease, up to 180 Hz).
In another thread Tda7293v:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3857
no one was able to get it working,
halojoy has some ideas . . .
(But befoe I outlay some chunks of money)
did anyone ever get this chip, or any other, working successfully in slave mode?
Regards
Richard
Slightly OT to this thread, but this where the chip/gurus are:
I'm considering buying a quantity of TDA7293s, to run in slave mode to drive some harder loads
(inc. Peerless XLS 12 inch: 3.5 ohms, hopefully with ease, up to 180 Hz).
In another thread Tda7293v:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3857
no one was able to get it working,
halojoy has some ideas . . .
(But befoe I outlay some chunks of money)
did anyone ever get this chip, or any other, working successfully in slave mode?
Regards
Richard
This raises quite a big issue for me! Years ago, I looked into the issue of short interconnects/long speaker cables or long interconnects/short speaker cables and came out in favour of the latter (especially when using two power amps).
However, after listening to the Gainclone last night, I am now wondering if I should ditch the monobloc idea (with an amp close to each speaker), put both amp channels in one box with a stepped attenuator and use longer speaker cables again.
I presume (from reading this thread) that is what most people are doing. It does do away with the need for a preamp!
Anybody got views on this issue?
(And all that work that I put into my monobloc cases
)Nuuk said:
This raises quite a big issue for me! Years ago, I looked into the issue of short interconnects/long speaker cables or long interconnects/short speaker cables and came out in favour of the latter (especially when using two power amps).
However, after listening to the Gainclone last night, I am now wondering if I should ditch the monobloc idea (with an amp close to each speaker), put both amp channels in one box with a stepped attenuator and use longer speaker cables again.
I presume (from reading this thread) that is what most people are doing. It does do away with the need for a preamp!
Anybody got views on this issue?
(And all that work that I put into my monobloc cases
Gald you're enjoying them - a bit different to your modded A60
Just wait until you've got another transformer!I've been through the same thought-processes over the years. I think that either approach is valid, depending on your system.
I'm building 4 monoblocks because I like the idea of a modular system. Ultimately, they'll be for surround and centre duties (with one spare), but in the meantime I can use them to experiment with bi-amping. And as I'm not currently using a centre speaker, they will be used for the fronts - at least until I've built something more powerful for the ATC's.
At the moment, I don't plan to place them at each speaker to minimize the speaker cable run. There's hassle of running mains connections, and I'd have to buy a load of long interconnects (I already have a drum of 79-strand!).
Something to consider - isn't there a 0.22 ohm resistor in series with the output on some GainClones? I'm sure that a few metres of decent speaker cable will better than that...
As you probably know, I already have a preamp. But I can see how the no-preamp idea could be appealing. One question - does your GainClone have enough gain to provide maximum output from your quietest source? Obviously, you could increase the gain to account for this, but would this change the character of the sound?
And it would be a shame to not use your fantastic cases! I wonder if you should stick with them, but mount them near your kit. Then, you could continue to use a passive preamp - perhaps built in a similar case?
...now there's an idea
And I saw the post from Peter about the MSR860's about an hour after I'd placed the order for the MUR's! Typical! Still, IIRC, he said the differences are minimal, and my hearing isn't as well-tuned as his
Cheers,
Mark
Yes, as ever, the real answer is 'experiment'!
I already have suitable mains sockets for monobloc power amps near to each speaker so that's not a problem for me. More of a concern is that I have purchased most of the parts to build a valve preamp
(See it HERE ) I planned the preamp to add a bit of 'valve' sound to my system but am now wondering if I actually need it with the Gainclones.I'll have more than a few options to keep me fiddling for the next few months!
I plan to run the Gainclones into some old Goodmans 201 'full-range' speakers in an open baffle and the longest length of speaker cable I would need would be 2 metres. As Bricolo points out, type of cable depending on capacitance etc could be a deciding factor.
I could keep the round cases and build an attenuator/selector switch into a third round housing and have them lined up under the CD player (except that the speaker wires will be a bit unsightly at the front!) Then again, I could build a new housing and new amps and use the existing ones in another room!
One thing that I noticed this morning was that my star ground is a little too near one of the decoupling caps and I saw a small spark when I powered down. Shouldn't be too hard to put right but I mention it for the benefit of would-be hard-wirers!
Nuuk said:
This raises quite a big issue for me! Years ago, I looked into the issue of short interconnects/long speaker cables or long interconnects/short speaker cables and came out in favour of the latter (especially when using two power amps).
However, after listening to the Gainclone last night, I am now wondering if I should ditch the monobloc idea (with an amp close to each speaker), put both amp channels in one box with a stepped attenuator and use longer speaker cables again.
I presume (from reading this thread) that is what most people are doing. It does do away with the need for a preamp!
Anybody got views on this issue?
(And all that work that I put into my monobloc cases
Keep your cases, they are very nice !!!
I didn't realize you used them as mono blocs near the speaker. Then it should be ok. I use a non-os dac with passive output and relatively high output impedance. So I want to use very short interconnects. If you have money (and time) to burn you could try the following:
1 - make 2 mono non-os dacs.
2 - build them in the monobloc near the speaker
3 - make a volume control with relais (you could even use volume transformers!!!)
4 - make a control unit with remote control (optional)
Problem could be the synchronisation between the channels. I don't know if it would work with two separate sp/dif receivers. Maybe you can build the sp/dif receiver in the control unit and feed the data and clock separately the dac/amp units. You could buffer these signals for better transmission and lower jitter. You could even add an extra phase locked loop (PLL) in the dac/amp units. The amp units can have an analog input too, switched by another relais.
Just some ideas...
Fedde
The difference between MSR and MUR860 is not like day and night and I still didn't decide for sure which one is better and both may appeal to certain tastes.
It is a great advantage to use the pots directly with the amp and with a speakers of 90dB or more efficiency you will get enough gain from running the source directly. I still believe that the best preamp is no preamp.
It is a great advantage to use the pots directly with the amp and with a speakers of 90dB or more efficiency you will get enough gain from running the source directly. I still believe that the best preamp is no preamp.
I am just wondering... anyone compared their clones with the original gaincard yet ???
Regrettably I have had some oscillation problems with my clone in the past weeks
I installed the 50 k stepped att. a few days ago and was *shocked* by the difference. I don't know what makes the difference: the resistors (metal, non-magnetic, 1%), the switch (ELMA 23 step), the configuration (4 deck), the soldering or the difference in impedance 50 k <-> 100 k. Probably the impedance decrease is the biggest factor. Also, the switch I used previously was very old and bad, with dirty connectors. The sound is much tighter (the bass!!!) and I have more high frequency output and detail. But regrettably it didn't solve my oscillation problem. I hope I'll have some time later this week to design a pcb for the opamps with proper grounding. I am planning to use the 4.7 uF decoupling BG's next to the opamp and ditch the 1 uF polycarbonate I am using there now. I hope that will solve the problems...
I am not completely sure that my amp oscillates, but I think so. The opamps stay cool in rest and I can't measure anything on the output then (a small dc of course). Also, an 1/8W 4.7 k resistor at the output doesn't warm up. But I have the impression that the amp sounds worse sometimes after changing the volume with the switch. When I turn the amp of for a second and turn back on it seems to sound better again...
BTW: I almost smoked one channel this weekend !!! The opamp is not connected perfectly. The bolt of the opamp (at -36V) managed to touch the heatsink that is connected to the case. The case is connected to the earth by a resistor and cap. These are quite black now, but they saved my opamp I guess and hope.
Well that's it for now...
Fedde
Regrettably I have had some oscillation problems with my clone in the past weeks
I installed the 50 k stepped att. a few days ago and was *shocked* by the difference. I don't know what makes the difference: the resistors (metal, non-magnetic, 1%), the switch (ELMA 23 step), the configuration (4 deck), the soldering or the difference in impedance 50 k <-> 100 k. Probably the impedance decrease is the biggest factor. Also, the switch I used previously was very old and bad, with dirty connectors. The sound is much tighter (the bass!!!) and I have more high frequency output and detail. But regrettably it didn't solve my oscillation problem. I hope I'll have some time later this week to design a pcb for the opamps with proper grounding. I am planning to use the 4.7 uF decoupling BG's next to the opamp and ditch the 1 uF polycarbonate I am using there now. I hope that will solve the problems...
I am not completely sure that my amp oscillates, but I think so. The opamps stay cool in rest and I can't measure anything on the output then (a small dc of course). Also, an 1/8W 4.7 k resistor at the output doesn't warm up. But I have the impression that the amp sounds worse sometimes after changing the volume with the switch. When I turn the amp of for a second and turn back on it seems to sound better again...
BTW: I almost smoked one channel this weekend !!! The opamp is not connected perfectly. The bolt of the opamp (at -36V) managed to touch the heatsink that is connected to the case. The case is connected to the earth by a resistor and cap. These are quite black now, but they saved my opamp I guess and hope.
Well that's it for now...
Fedde
Bricolo said:
Which reminds me, Bricolo - did you ever manage to stop your GainClone oscillating?
You're right, of course. But the same is also true for a low-level interconnect. As I said, either approach is valid - just depends on your situation. If, as Peter suggests, you prefer to use no preamp then (assuming you want a single volume control for both channels), it's much better to use long speaker cables instead of long interconnects.
An approach that I think has already mentioned would be to put something like a PGA2310 in each GainClone. It would be quite possible to address them both from a common control circuit. Quite neat, assuming the thought of an active volume control doesn't worry you...
Nuuk, I'm slightly worried about your sparking GainClone! Have you fixed it?
Thanks Peter - my MUR860's just arrived - I'll install them tomorrow and report back
Bricolo said:you can run it unloaded
but most of the time, when I want to listen to music, I run it loaded
ive only just built my gainclone and i want to check the output for dc offset before i connect a speaker.
do i just use a multimeter across each of the outputs and gound?
what is an exeptable level?
I finished my cases today and mounted the amp circuits in them. Being a careful sort, I rechecked the offsets at the speaker terminals and noticed that when powering on or off I get about 1.5 volts momentarily, although it is normally steady at around 28mv.
Is this normal or do I have a problem to look for? Both channels are the same.
Thanks for all the suggestions on system set ups. The thing I like about this hobby is that you could spend several lifetimes trying things and still not run out of other possibilities!
So, the cute little cases have a fan club eh? I certainly won't junk them after all the time and work hand-shaping those front-plates!
Is this normal or do I have a problem to look for? Both channels are the same.
Thanks for all the suggestions on system set ups. The thing I like about this hobby is that you could spend several lifetimes trying things and still not run out of other possibilities!
So, the cute little cases have a fan club eh?
I certainly won't junk them after all the time and work hand-shaping those front-plates!- Status
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