A few mV on the output, so no, it isn't working. I guess you are saying I didn't show you what you need to help me figure out what is wrong. I sure wouldn't ask the question if the supply was working right.
If I have something wrong, or did not communicate what was needed, okay, but if it was working, I wouldn't have posted.
Thanks Andy, I will get it figured out...
JT
If I have something wrong, or did not communicate what was needed, okay, but if it was working, I wouldn't have posted.
Thanks Andy, I will get it figured out...
JT
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??????? So you wrote down the wrong thing?
You stated earlier that you build at a furious pace - it would seem you diagnose at the same pace?
I myself am completely the opposite (keeping in mind always,the old adage "measure twice - cut once"!).
I tend to measure at least 3 times before I cut - or solder. Andy
I have to work all day today and tomorrow, let me get that out of the way, and I will go back over everything and post again with an updated schematic.
Sorry for the confusion, I had little time and rushed to get something to you in the mean time.
I might get some time after work tonight, if I do I will update all and make it more clear.
JT
??????? So you wrote down the wrong thing?
You stated earlier that you build at a furious pace - it would seem you diagnose at the same pace?
I myself am completely the opposite (keeping in mind always,the old adage "measure twice - cut once"!).
Andy
Andy, do you think because I build at a frenetic rate that it makes me sloppy? Here's the F5T I built for a friend for Christmas, it was my first NP build.
I take pride in what I build, there are other factors of this build and board, which have bearing, but I will figure it out with help from my friends. If you have anything constructive to add, that would be great!
Anyway, I will re-post when I have better data and would appreciate any thoughts you may have... In the mean time, check out my lack of measuring and haste to build the F5T.
JT
Attachments
I'm interested in picking up one of the dual boards. On Etsy they are listed as delivery in 3-4 weeks. Is that correct or are you waiting on another batch of boards?
Can anyone comment on whether it would be worthwhile to go full dual mono for an M2 build with an Antek 4224 and dual rail per channel?
Can anyone comment on whether it would be worthwhile to go full dual mono for an M2 build with an Antek 4224 and dual rail per channel?
Several members here use Etsy, and I never had a problem from those purchases. The shipping was on time and fast, had the product within 10 days or better. I can't speak to the service in general, but vendors like X, I had no issues at all.
As to full mono, there is much written, but I have yet to do that build, but will very soon. Nelson comments on it here somewhere. Basically, my recollection of what he said was this... If you don't mind spending double to make it happen, it will indeed sound better. Will it sound twice as good... not a chance, that last part is me, but it's a fact.
Look, we are all trying to get the best sound we can get, for the least amount of $$, but there are so many variables in the equation, I don't have the maths. Yes maths. The best advice I can give you; listen and decide for yourself... Some of the flat response speakers/systems I heard had no feeling or musicality... Indeed they were flat and lifeless. PLEASE, don't worry about what others think, listen for yourself and go from there.
I'm on #3 so I will close here.... with regards to music, numbers never put a smile on my face.... Well, that's not strictly true... I get a grin on my face when I listen to what I have done for pennies on the dollar. It's hard to pry the grin off my face when I hear how much some people paid, are our stuff sounds as good or better.
Time for food and bed...
Nite
JT
As to full mono, there is much written, but I have yet to do that build, but will very soon. Nelson comments on it here somewhere. Basically, my recollection of what he said was this... If you don't mind spending double to make it happen, it will indeed sound better. Will it sound twice as good... not a chance, that last part is me, but it's a fact.
Look, we are all trying to get the best sound we can get, for the least amount of $$, but there are so many variables in the equation, I don't have the maths. Yes maths. The best advice I can give you; listen and decide for yourself... Some of the flat response speakers/systems I heard had no feeling or musicality... Indeed they were flat and lifeless. PLEASE, don't worry about what others think, listen for yourself and go from there.
I'm on #3 so I will close here.... with regards to music, numbers never put a smile on my face.... Well, that's not strictly true... I get a grin on my face when I listen to what I have done for pennies on the dollar. It's hard to pry the grin off my face when I hear how much some people paid, are our stuff sounds as good or better.
Time for food and bed...
Nite
JT
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I wouldn't say 'sloppy', TT - but it seems to me that a frenetic pace has a higher chance of creating errors than a measured pace.
My sincere congratulations, TT, for building a working F5T!
I actually bought the F5T boards over a year ago but then decided there were so many circuit value amendments in the 100s of pages of that thread ... that I was unlikely to end up with a working amp.
Then a year later, during a catchup with Hugh, he gave me the AN 4R circuit - and I will start soldering soon, as all the PCB parts have now arrived.
But I expect it will take me a couple of months, at the rate I work, before I have 2 working stereo AN 4Rs.I am a novice, TT - and haven't built it yet - so my ability to offer you good advice on construction is extremely limited.
Anyway, I hope you solve the problem.
Andy
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My understanding is that there's both a straightforward - and a more indirect - consideration here:
1. the SLB is limited to 5a supply - so if the M2 takes more than 2.5a per channel ... you will need to go dual-mono.
2. less direct (or more argumentative!) is the issue ... does a power supply (and traffo) for each give you better sound?
My opinion is that it does - but of course, it costs more.
Andy
Sorry about that. The original description was for the pre-order. There are some boards ready for immediate shipment. Let me go on change the shipping time.
I used a single 300VA 22v Antek (3222) with a single SLB for the M2X and it worked fine. But I think a 400VA is better. Dual monoblocks are always better from noise standpoint. I was able to get it pretty quiet with a shared trafo and SLB. You need to follow the connection diagram I posted though or risk getting loud hum sounds. A 24v trafo will give you close to 27v which can work but will dissipate more heat. Make sure your chassis is setup for that.
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Thanks. I'm actually trying to pick my next project. Picked up the Edcor transformers. Need to order boards and get parts if that's what I decide on.
I've built two F5s which use the regular CRC supply and are powering the top parts of my three ways actives. No plans to tear those apart for an SLB upgrade, I will be adding some 159s.
Now building a new amp for the second system which has 87dB monitors.
Alpha Nirvana has me interested as Aleph J was a consideration. I like the idea of M2X input boards. And then there is the BA-3... Something new will be built this year cause I just finished another F5 for a friend and this is just too much fun.
Alpha Nirvana in a 5U 400 chassis, 2x400VA/SLB using the extra heatsinking to mount the regulators on each side...
I've built two F5s which use the regular CRC supply and are powering the top parts of my three ways actives. No plans to tear those apart for an SLB upgrade, I will be adding some 159s.
Now building a new amp for the second system which has 87dB monitors.
Alpha Nirvana has me interested as Aleph J was a consideration. I like the idea of M2X input boards. And then there is the BA-3... Something new will be built this year cause I just finished another F5 for a friend and this is just too much fun.
Alpha Nirvana in a 5U 400 chassis, 2x400VA/SLB using the extra heatsinking to mount the regulators on each side...
That’s how my AN is setup, (2x300va, 24v) the 5U 400 heatsinks are perfectly sized to keep the temps under control
Hi James (on this much more reasonable day!).
Due to me deciding to use Vunce's suggestion of a Dell FD841 CPU cooler for both of the AN 4R mosfets (instead of what I had originally planned), I now have room to fit an Altronics H0580 heatsink for the two SLB transistors. At 1.4C/W, 18w total heat load will cause the heatsink to rise 25 deg - and it will be mounted with a 120mm fan under it (and the FD841) ... so should remain much cooler.
Andy
The M2 will benefit very nicely from a dual mono PSU. I would recommend the AS-3222 in conjunction with the SLB. Should give you about 26.5 Volts, depending on your choice of transistors in the SLB.
The input stage of the M2 will need to be modified to accept the higher voltage. See the following posts: F6 Amplifier and F6 Amplifier
Just a follow-up on the one side of the SLB with no output. I really wanted to take some time and troubleshoot this for myself, the circuit is rather simple as far as size and seemed like a good time to try and learn something. To that end, I followed the voltage to where I first saw a drop that didn't look right. I saw 5v on C16 which should have been around -30v. I pulled one end of all the resistors, which could have been the issue and all tested fine. In doing so I noticed that the pad on R16 wasn't quit right. By that I mean, this board had a few issues, in certain places where solder wouldn't seem to bond with the pad properly. I spoke with X about it and he offered to send a replacement right away, but I felt I could deal with it... needed a bit more heat and careful inspection after soldering.
Well, I must have missed one when inspecting, the solder looked good, but R16 was not making proper contact. At least I'm pretty sure that was the one, because I went back over all of them and pulled the solder with a wick (the expensive NTE X suggested, worth every damn penny) I then soldered everything back in the area and when I tested C16 it now had -30V on it and I began to grin and tested the output and bingo -29v on the side that was having issues. There's a possibility it could have been R10 as well.
Great learning couple of days for me... I worked on it off and on over a couple days. What helped was Xs and Vs inputs, but mostly that I post the schematic marking for the forum. I ran around testing point and couldn't remember what was tested and what was not. Using the schematic to make notations and check off what was working brought me down to a very small area. As it turned out, the problem was indeed in that small group of components.
SO thanks for the help and it's onward with the build. I should have the first side of the AN mono fired up today or tomorrow, hopefully, that was the last hiccup for this build, but somehow I doubt it. This was the first time, there was an issue at power up, and as it turns out, I did nothing wrong, this time.
Well, I must have missed one when inspecting, the solder looked good, but R16 was not making proper contact. At least I'm pretty sure that was the one, because I went back over all of them and pulled the solder with a wick (the expensive NTE X suggested, worth every damn penny) I then soldered everything back in the area and when I tested C16 it now had -30V on it and I began to grin and tested the output and bingo -29v on the side that was having issues. There's a possibility it could have been R10 as well.
Great learning couple of days for me... I worked on it off and on over a couple days. What helped was Xs and Vs inputs, but mostly that I post the schematic marking for the forum. I ran around testing point and couldn't remember what was tested and what was not. Using the schematic to make notations and check off what was working brought me down to a very small area. As it turned out, the problem was indeed in that small group of components.
SO thanks for the help and it's onward with the build. I should have the first side of the AN mono fired up today or tomorrow, hopefully, that was the last hiccup for this build, but somehow I doubt it. This was the first time, there was an issue at power up, and as it turns out, I did nothing wrong, this time.
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Hi Thompsontech,
Great work! Glad you got it all sorted out and see how the debug process works. The measurements of the node voltages and writing them down is the first step in debugging. It’s like what a Dr does by taking vitals of pulse, blood pressure, listening to heart and lungs etc. then if more blood tests needed to build a picture of where things could be wrong.
It’s a vital step to debugging but many people are loathe to do it - yes, it is real work to go around with a DMM probe and touch and record 10 to 30 points. Drudgery. We would all rather have someone else tell us the miracle cure without a proper diagnosis.
Thanks for your patience and perseverance to get through it.
Great work! Glad you got it all sorted out and see how the debug process works. The measurements of the node voltages and writing them down is the first step in debugging. It’s like what a Dr does by taking vitals of pulse, blood pressure, listening to heart and lungs etc. then if more blood tests needed to build a picture of where things could be wrong.
It’s a vital step to debugging but many people are loathe to do it - yes, it is real work to go around with a DMM probe and touch and record 10 to 30 points. Drudgery. We would all rather have someone else tell us the miracle cure without a proper diagnosis.
Thanks for your patience and perseverance to get through it.