Interesting about the weight. 50 lbs is where the magic starts, but where does it stop? The 4 pieces of sized Panzer weigh 85 lbs, then less what gets cut out for the motor, platter, arm. Then add 10 lbs for the drain, and a couple pounds for the motor and arm. Not sure what I'm going to use for feet yet. But I estimate maybe 100 lbs total for mine?
Coasttocoast,
I did not realize the SME 312S tonearm was so expensive. However, with the strong US dollar the price is mitigated for us living in the United States. The review.
SME 312S Tonearm
You got some good stuff like the Minus K. Do you like the Minus K? What model is this?
I did not realize the SME 312S tonearm was so expensive. However, with the strong US dollar the price is mitigated for us living in the United States. The review.
SME 312S Tonearm
You got some good stuff like the Minus K. Do you like the Minus K? What model is this?
For footers, the BlackPods can be used under any component weighing up to 75kg.
Mad Scientist Audio :: Footers
The review: SHOOT-OUT: Stillpoints Ultra SS Footers vs. MSA BlackPod Footers - Winston Smith - Tweakers' Asylum
Mad Scientist Audio :: Footers
The review: SHOOT-OUT: Stillpoints Ultra SS Footers vs. MSA BlackPod Footers - Winston Smith - Tweakers' Asylum
The SME 312S is almost as good as the SME V 12" in fact can you spot the difference ?
SME 312S, 12" tonearm, ideal for the Garrad 301 and 401, New & 6 year warranty | eBay
SME 312S, 12" tonearm, ideal for the Garrad 301 and 401, New & 6 year warranty | eBay
Needle Doctor has the price at $4k. The minus K is my friends. But the size is 22.5" x 24" x 9" tall. I don't think my listening appreciation has reached the stage for me to hear the value of the expense. Actually probably not even to the level for how I'm building the plinth. But I don't want to have to build another in the future, but I can always buy a minus k later.
I've been living with a Minus-K for the past couple of years. While its contribution does improve the listening experience, and in budgetary terms, I would place priority of its purchase down toward the bottom of the list.
Why? Because what it does for the presentation is in the 'subtle but significant' category. For the money spent on a Minus-K you can buy a really good equipment rack. Or build one for the cost of materials. Or buy a really good phono stage. Or a really good MC cartridge. A really good tonearm. Stuff like that.
At some time, though, when the final tonearm and cartridge and phono stage have been put into use, then the isolation platform, like a minus-k or a Vibraplane, or a Herzan, can take it all to an even higher level.
What's Under Your Table
My 2c.
-Steve
Yes, for me a Minus K will be down the road a bit. As Steve said, lots of other items to incorporate first.
So today I started on the Panzerholz.
I was pretty nervous about getting started. Everything I have read about Panzer mentioned how hard it was to cut and shape. Almost to the point that I had started to have second thoughts about using it and maybe even simplifying my design to minimum cutting.
All in vain. Maybe the posters had never used carbide bits, I don't know. But the Panzer was actually a pleasure to cut. Sure, you have to push a little slower through the saw, and make a couple more passes with a router by only going 3/8" deep at a time. But way better than say Oak, as with Oak you have to worry about splitting and which direction you cut and run a router, but not with the Panzer.
I first recut the shipped pieces to 19 1/4" x 16 1/8" in the table saw. After the first cut I quickly shut off the saw and checked to see how hot the blade was, not even warm. Cut all 4 sides of all 4 pieces, still not warm. One of the shop guys was in and needed the saw next. I told him I had just cut the Panzer and to double check the blade. He ran a test piece, no issue and continued about his day.
In the CNC I was using a 1/2" cutting bit. Cutting through 1" MDF I set the speed to 60%, with the Panzer I set the speed (moving speed, not bit speed) at 10%.
I used a 7/8" round over bit for the top, bottom, and corner edges in a plunge router. I first precut the corners by running the pieces through the table saw with the blade at 45* angle just shy of the finish cut so the router wouldn't have to remove so much material. Again, no issue.
Instead of cutting the platter recess all the way through the top layer this time I got a little more technical and kept as much material below the platter as prudent. I also took out 3/8" deep the corner by the arm to give some adjustability and not make the arm look too claustrophobic.
A pic with just the platter in place to make sure I cut enough material away, about 1/8" extra clearance.
Another little speaker project I'm working on, sprayed the base coat today too.
This will also be the base color of the turntable, with a twist yet to come.
So today I started on the Panzerholz.
I was pretty nervous about getting started. Everything I have read about Panzer mentioned how hard it was to cut and shape. Almost to the point that I had started to have second thoughts about using it and maybe even simplifying my design to minimum cutting.
All in vain. Maybe the posters had never used carbide bits, I don't know. But the Panzer was actually a pleasure to cut. Sure, you have to push a little slower through the saw, and make a couple more passes with a router by only going 3/8" deep at a time. But way better than say Oak, as with Oak you have to worry about splitting and which direction you cut and run a router, but not with the Panzer.
I first recut the shipped pieces to 19 1/4" x 16 1/8" in the table saw. After the first cut I quickly shut off the saw and checked to see how hot the blade was, not even warm. Cut all 4 sides of all 4 pieces, still not warm. One of the shop guys was in and needed the saw next. I told him I had just cut the Panzer and to double check the blade. He ran a test piece, no issue and continued about his day.
In the CNC I was using a 1/2" cutting bit. Cutting through 1" MDF I set the speed to 60%, with the Panzer I set the speed (moving speed, not bit speed) at 10%.
I used a 7/8" round over bit for the top, bottom, and corner edges in a plunge router. I first precut the corners by running the pieces through the table saw with the blade at 45* angle just shy of the finish cut so the router wouldn't have to remove so much material. Again, no issue.
Instead of cutting the platter recess all the way through the top layer this time I got a little more technical and kept as much material below the platter as prudent. I also took out 3/8" deep the corner by the arm to give some adjustability and not make the arm look too claustrophobic.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
A pic with just the platter in place to make sure I cut enough material away, about 1/8" extra clearance.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Another little speaker project I'm working on, sprayed the base coat today too.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
This will also be the base color of the turntable, with a twist yet to come.
Last edited:
Sorry i didn't answer sooner...was out of town with no internet access!
If you were using MDF i would vote for two bronze layers.
Since it's panzerholz one middle layer about 2cm thick (or 3/4") should be enough.
What i said i would do, is to cut my own cup that would be an integral part of the rod.
IMHO attaching weight is half the job.
You need to add damping to the iron plate to help the vibration energy die out...
As for the arm drain...it is either the central main screw that connects the arm's body to the mounting plate/collar or any other place under this that be used to firmly attach the drain weight without interfering with securing the arm to the turntable chassis.
Each arm needs careful consideration as to where this drain can be attached.
For example i have done this with Kuzma 4P just by adding damping on the arm's long center axle and now with the Triplanar arm by removing the main screw and replacing it with a long headless screw/locking nut and attaching weight to the screw...
I'm using the standard power supply (though I changed out the 5V reg to a 317 circuit), so I *think* the voltages are all coming up simultaneously. Platter doesn't start, but if I nudge it backward, the drive kicks on for a fraction of a revolution, then stops. Logic board voltage at P3 is only 16mV (it's supposed to be 0.7V), so I need to dig into that. I may try swapping logic boards with the other unit I have.
Thanks for taking the time to reply and for the advise!
For me everything is an experiment it seems. I have not read a turntable build where the builder used 100% Panzer. Most builders it seems use some or a lot, but inject aluminum, bronze and or cover the Panzer with another wood. For this build I'm staying with all Panzer. Then some results will be avaiable.My arm is attached to the top layer, nothing else, and the top layer of Panzer weighs around 15 lbs, surely that's a decent drain?
Tonight I finished laying up the 4 layers of Panzer. I did one layer a night. My secret bonding agent is polyurethane based, elastomeric, waterproof, paintable and jet fuel resistant (very important in a Turntable!). I am using a solid 1/16" layer between each layer of Panzer.
No fasteners from layer to layer. Only tape while it sets up.
After this has set up a few days I will finish routing all the corners.
I need to drill and tap the iron block, then I will set in a bed of this same poly material. The opening in the Panzer is 1/2" larger than the iron, so a good 1/4" of materiel to isolate the drain.
My feet also arrived, Stillpoints Ultra SS. I ordered 3.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
No fasteners from layer to layer. Only tape while it sets up.
After this has set up a few days I will finish routing all the corners.
I need to drill and tap the iron block, then I will set in a bed of this same poly material. The opening in the Panzer is 1/2" larger than the iron, so a good 1/4" of materiel to isolate the drain.
My feet also arrived, Stillpoints Ultra SS. I ordered 3.