Dave,
They look really sweet with the voids wide open and the curved terminus. It makes me wish I didn't know the benefits of the suprabaffle and deflector, although I believe the suprabaffle can be integrated well with form rendered. Now, how do we get most of the deflector benefit while avoiding the erector set add-on look, because I, for one, don't want to detract from what you have pictured.
How confident are you that it's time to build for those of us who want to go directly to final form?
They look really sweet with the voids wide open and the curved terminus. It makes me wish I didn't know the benefits of the suprabaffle and deflector, although I believe the suprabaffle can be integrated well with form rendered. Now, how do we get most of the deflector benefit while avoiding the erector set add-on look, because I, for one, don't want to detract from what you have pictured.
How confident are you that it's time to build for those of us who want to go directly to final form?
Member
Joined 2002
planet10 said:
Hope You guy's take pics.. I want to see.
Jase
I wanted to bring this.. Maybe you guys can borrow it ?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Bob Brines said:
I didn't even try that, but from the tool set, it looks like it could be a problem. They have done a really good job of providing something free that gives you a real sense of how slick the program is, yet lacking enuff useful features beyond the simple that you'd be really tempted to do the full version.
dave
Re: Dave and others..
It doesn't keep the geometry thou (ie a rectangle comes in as four lines) so all it is good for is a template to use to redraw your object -- that is how i did the Frugel-Horn model.... certainly not as slick in that respect as the antique (Alis Sketch!) that i have been using -- save the Vectorworks as an EPS, import and go to town....
Bob, you could decompose an elipse into a polygon and then trace that...
dave
Nanook said:
It doesn't keep the geometry thou (ie a rectangle comes in as four lines) so all it is good for is a template to use to redraw your object -- that is how i did the Frugel-Horn model.... certainly not as slick in that respect as the antique (Alis Sketch!) that i have been using -- save the Vectorworks as an EPS, import and go to town....
Bob, you could decompose an elipse into a polygon and then trace that...
dave
Materials for Frugel Horn
I have been following this thread and I feel I will build a set, except I will be using a pair of modded Redback drivers (from altronics in OZ), I have used these in the Fostex DB design and the results were terrific, and if it doesn't work well in this application I can always put the Fostex drivers in.
I have a couple of Qs though, first up my options for timber choice where I live are very limited, basically MDF is really the only viable option unless I want to blow the costs out of the water. So what are the disadvantages of MDF in this application sound wise. Would lacquering the inside surfaces with polyurethane help limit these, I notice one commercial maker does this.
Second the internal panels are joined with square cut edges, I wonder if using a router to round off these edeges and placing rounded timber inserts in the corners so the pathways are smoother would have any sonic benefits by causing less disturbance to the waves.
Finally the benfit of the wedge seems to be to stop panel resonance, could not a similar effect be made by bracing the outside of the rear panel and filling the lower cavity with sand to stop resonance on the inside panel.
It seems the volume of the chamber is very important and I would need to experiment but how does one do this without pulling the whole assmbly apart each time and wrecking everything.
Lastly a big thank you to Dave for the effort that has been put into this project, the DIY community owes Dave and other like him a great debt for enriching our listening lives.
I have been following this thread and I feel I will build a set, except I will be using a pair of modded Redback drivers (from altronics in OZ), I have used these in the Fostex DB design and the results were terrific, and if it doesn't work well in this application I can always put the Fostex drivers in.
I have a couple of Qs though, first up my options for timber choice where I live are very limited, basically MDF is really the only viable option unless I want to blow the costs out of the water. So what are the disadvantages of MDF in this application sound wise. Would lacquering the inside surfaces with polyurethane help limit these, I notice one commercial maker does this.
Second the internal panels are joined with square cut edges, I wonder if using a router to round off these edeges and placing rounded timber inserts in the corners so the pathways are smoother would have any sonic benefits by causing less disturbance to the waves.
Finally the benfit of the wedge seems to be to stop panel resonance, could not a similar effect be made by bracing the outside of the rear panel and filling the lower cavity with sand to stop resonance on the inside panel.
It seems the volume of the chamber is very important and I would need to experiment but how does one do this without pulling the whole assmbly apart each time and wrecking everything.
Lastly a big thank you to Dave for the effort that has been put into this project, the DIY community owes Dave and other like him a great debt for enriching our listening lives.
Re: Materials for Frugel Horn
A couple early builds have been done in MDF... stiffening the material would certainly help.
To maximize HF passing thru the horn yes, but here we want to limit the HF getting thru the horn, so it might actually degrade the sonics... layertone is working on an "all swoop" version, we'll see. Experimentation is encoraged.
As far as bracing goes that would work... but the panel bracing is actually a side effect. the wedgie came about to limit the number of different angles to cut (althou that probably didn't actually reduce the work). The other benefit is the closer to square aspect ratio of the throat.
Make it bigger than needed, make it easy to remove the driver or the (sub) baffle and just toss blocks in to adjust the volume (kids blocks would do.
I'm just the point-man on this. It wouldn't of come together without Chris or Ron, or Scott or Martin...
dave
Zero One said:
A couple early builds have been done in MDF... stiffening the material would certainly help.
To maximize HF passing thru the horn yes, but here we want to limit the HF getting thru the horn, so it might actually degrade the sonics... layertone is working on an "all swoop" version, we'll see. Experimentation is encoraged.
As far as bracing goes that would work... but the panel bracing is actually a side effect. the wedgie came about to limit the number of different angles to cut (althou that probably didn't actually reduce the work). The other benefit is the closer to square aspect ratio of the throat.
Make it bigger than needed, make it easy to remove the driver or the (sub) baffle and just toss blocks in to adjust the volume (kids blocks would do.
I'm just the point-man on this. It wouldn't of come together without Chris or Ron, or Scott or Martin...
dave
Dave thanks for the response and a big thanks to the other guys as well it is much apprecaited by those fairly new to the area like myself, I have been very much fascinated particulary by what Ron has written and the advice given- brilliant!
I feel I will probably start this project next weekend, so I will keep you posted on what happens, one thing I didn't mention is that I will be integrating a pair of gainclones into the speakers, basically I am going to put a supra baffle on and extend the side up a few inches then place the gainclone modules behind this and wired straight into the drivers, with a variable shelving circuit I will also be adding a super tweeter (car 1 inch type) I have done this with my DBs and it works a treat.
So overall my incarnation of the frugel horn may be a little different and of some interest to others.
The gainclone modules are a bit different too, they are already built and running 18v batt supplies, LM1875 chips, low gain and pretty much all smd parts, they sound quite a bit better than all the other clones I have built so hopefully they can do this marvellous speaker design justice. The amp is built P2P on a ground plane and runs 3200uf off board caps as well, the whole module is shielded in a little copper coffin. And as you can see its very small, the mid range and treble is very very sweet IMHO.
Many thanks
Brad.
I feel I will probably start this project next weekend, so I will keep you posted on what happens, one thing I didn't mention is that I will be integrating a pair of gainclones into the speakers, basically I am going to put a supra baffle on and extend the side up a few inches then place the gainclone modules behind this and wired straight into the drivers, with a variable shelving circuit I will also be adding a super tweeter (car 1 inch type) I have done this with my DBs and it works a treat.
So overall my incarnation of the frugel horn may be a little different and of some interest to others.
The gainclone modules are a bit different too, they are already built and running 18v batt supplies, LM1875 chips, low gain and pretty much all smd parts, they sound quite a bit better than all the other clones I have built so hopefully they can do this marvellous speaker design justice. The amp is built P2P on a ground plane and runs 3200uf off board caps as well, the whole module is shielded in a little copper coffin. And as you can see its very small, the mid range and treble is very very sweet IMHO.
Many thanks
Brad.
Attachments
Got to make a set of these.
BWRX said:
Yes. I posted the mod on the Full Range Forum... a link off this page that has additional info.
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/fostex.html
dave