Scott,
Thanks. I might take you up on the offer, though I think I will likely press forward in the next few days and start ordering drivers. Reading through the thread, it appears that you made a few audiophiles happy with the Elsinores in your group build. I did hear back from Joe on my question (and waveguide order), and he said go with the SB17MFC35-8. So that is likely the direction I will be going.
David
Thanks. I might take you up on the offer, though I think I will likely press forward in the next few days and start ordering drivers. Reading through the thread, it appears that you made a few audiophiles happy with the Elsinores in your group build. I did hear back from Joe on my question (and waveguide order), and he said go with the SB17MFC35-8. So that is likely the direction I will be going.
David
Interesting suggestion, but I wouldn't recommend it. You will get a slightly weaker lower midrange and upper bass. But the SB17MFC35-8 is not an inferior driver, in fact it is slightly more expensive. Also, for those thinking about going back to the Peeerless Nomex (that would mean building Mk5) is that the Nomex is actually a non-paper cone, the fibres are synthetic. The internal mineral loading cone of the SB17MFC35-8 serves a similar purpose. In some way it is better than the NRX version, it largely avoids that dip around 3-4KHz (which can be seen both on and off axis), it's on axis response is better controlled, but the Elsinores should not be listened at straight on axis.
Looking at the off axis, at 30 degrees they are about equal, the NRX has that discontinuity discussed above and the MFC has one around 5-6KHz, so maybe the edge is with the MFC. The 60 degrees off axis, the MFC is better.
The other downside is that the MFC is 1dB lower rated sensitivity, but that matches the Nomex used in Mk5, so don't loose to much sleep about that. Electrically, having the same motor assembly (magnet, suspension etc) they look identical. So the crossover will work with both drivers. This is a rare thing, normally you would need to start all over again with the crossover, but the drivers are so similar that it does not need it.
Russell McQaulter in Ballarat (in Victoria state down here) has already built a pair with the new driver and has reported back that it works very nicely with the MFC cone.
So please, if you don't have, or can't get, the NRX version, don't hesitate to use the MFC.
Cheers, Joe
Joe,
Thank you for your detailed reply concerning my "idea" of a mix of drivers, and account of a successful Elsinore build with the polycone SB mid-woofer. So will take your strong recommendation. I am looking forward to starting on this project, it is rare that a DIY speaker project is so well documented and has such support.
Thanks. It may take a while, but I will post progress once I get started.
David
Thank you for your detailed reply concerning my "idea" of a mix of drivers, and account of a successful Elsinore build with the polycone SB mid-woofer. So will take your strong recommendation. I am looking forward to starting on this project, it is rare that a DIY speaker project is so well documented and has such support.
Thanks. It may take a while, but I will post progress once I get started.
David
I have the MK5 Elsinores and a good friend of mine (Ozmozis) has the MK 6 version using NRX drivers. While we haven't done a A/B comparison (they are heavy to move) I can't really say that I've noticed any significant difference between them. We have identical amps and source. The rock solid imaging and effortless dynamics are evident in both.
Another question by way of an explanation. I have a pair of very solid 12" closed box active subwoofers that I currently have setup with a pair of Aria 5R MTM speakers (two Focal K013 5" Kevlar composite cones with a Raven R-1 ribbon) that I assembled from a Zalytron kit 20 years ago (very heavy 1-1/2" thick cabinets). I recently started listening to them again with the tube/Mosfet hybrid amp I just completed and was surprised on how these finally came alive, and in many respects sounded better from a imaging perspective than the Basszilla open baffle speakers I had been using, driven primarily by SE tube amplifiers.
This had me rethinking my plans over the weekend about retaining my subwoofers and using a larger MTM such as the Hamlets instead of the Elsinores. I think having the 6" drivers would fill out some lower midrange and bass extension where the Aria 5Rs are perhaps a little lean. I know my new amplifier has NO problem with 4 ohm loads (that is what the Aria 5R's present). Also, the cabinet would be more manageable for me to construct (getting more tired of lifting heavy objects in my 60's). So my question is how much of the Elsinore magic is retained in the Hamlet design? I realize that there are compromises with respect to dynamics, at least above the subwoofer cross-in, though if I understand things correctly (which is questionable), the Elsinore design uses the lower two mid-bass drivers as a woofer anyway, so around the midrange and lower treble, there are only two mid-woofers in play.
Thank for bearing with my out-loud thinking.
David
This had me rethinking my plans over the weekend about retaining my subwoofers and using a larger MTM such as the Hamlets instead of the Elsinores. I think having the 6" drivers would fill out some lower midrange and bass extension where the Aria 5Rs are perhaps a little lean. I know my new amplifier has NO problem with 4 ohm loads (that is what the Aria 5R's present). Also, the cabinet would be more manageable for me to construct (getting more tired of lifting heavy objects in my 60's). So my question is how much of the Elsinore magic is retained in the Hamlet design? I realize that there are compromises with respect to dynamics, at least above the subwoofer cross-in, though if I understand things correctly (which is questionable), the Elsinore design uses the lower two mid-bass drivers as a woofer anyway, so around the midrange and lower treble, there are only two mid-woofers in play.
Thank for bearing with my out-loud thinking.
David
Hey guys, Me and a good friend are, Well hope to dive into building a set. He's got a CNC in his garage that we are going to cut all the MDF with should be pretty sweet! I updated the spreadsheet for BOM from page 241 that SRMcGee Posted. With the updated woofer. As I don't we can source enough of the NXR line. The BOM includes almost everything. Including Prices and shipping and taxes to MD. My only question is for the 2" Sound deadening, what did people use? Im not sure exactly what im looking for just a 2" Polyester fine or is the Wool 60% and Dacron the preferred? Not sure when we are going to start this but hopefully soon. Im thinking of picking up a 2Ch Tube hybrid amp with 50W per channel. How are people driving these? 4 ch receiver or using a 2ch and splitting to the woofer and tweeters?
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1. Whatever you use, make sure that it is not too dense. Most of the volume behind the large vertical brace, that should be filled, the area in front should be lined with about 1" - so this is part filled and part lined. The area around the port should not be filled, so the centre fill piece stops just above the port. So if you follow the dimensions, then you will easily figure out what goes where.
2. Tube amp should be fine. But this speaker is so speaker friendly, it will good with any amp, but the better sounding the amp, the better the sound from the speaker. That rule will always apply.
Dropbox - elsinore18-25mm-Model.pdf
Dropbox - elsinore18-25mm.dwg
I don't know much about building speakers but I do know cad and cabinetry.
RE Dave's question I plan on building a set in multiply and drew them up using doubled 18mm considering but joints and sequence of set ups per Joe's original design.
If this is any help I hope I have given a little back for the enjoyment I have received from lurking on the forum.
the letters in the drawing are the sequence of the setups/cuts. when we do mill work we stage everything so that we make all of the like cuts during the same setup so that even if we are off by a hair all of the panels will be the same size.
hope to give a little more back when I get further into it
Dropbox - elsinore18-25mm.dwg
I don't know much about building speakers but I do know cad and cabinetry.
RE Dave's question I plan on building a set in multiply and drew them up using doubled 18mm considering but joints and sequence of set ups per Joe's original design.
If this is any help I hope I have given a little back for the enjoyment I have received from lurking on the forum.
the letters in the drawing are the sequence of the setups/cuts. when we do mill work we stage everything so that we make all of the like cuts during the same setup so that even if we are off by a hair all of the panels will be the same size.
hope to give a little more back when I get further into it
YES! jdkjake is your man! Multiple layers of BB.
There was also a very sweet cabinet a while back in aluminum of all materials.
BK
Thanks, sj4 - seems very useful, need to study it a bit.
BK
Indeed!
Thanks for the shout out BK. Hope this finds you doing well.
Still considering building a pair?
1. Whatever you use, make sure that it is not too dense. Most of the volume behind the large vertical brace, that should be filled, the area in front should be lined with about 1" - so this is part filled and part lined. The area around the port should not be filled, so the centre fill piece stops just above the port. So if you follow the dimensions, then you will easily figure out what goes where.
2. Tube amp should be fine. But this speaker is so speaker friendly, it will good with any amp, but the better sounding the amp, the better the sound from the speaker. That rule will always apply.
Awesome thank you!
Yes! I flirt with the idea of building a pair now and then. Eventually I'll do it.
Cutting the wood with sufficient accuracy is the main obstacle for me. My A26 build was educational and a good warm-up.
BK
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Well, waveguides received today, so I suppose that's the first step!
They look great, by the way, thanks Joe!!
BK
That's good to know BK. Summer project for you? Or we can expect a full build even before that?
That's good to know BK. Summer project for you? Or we can expect a full build even before that?
I can always count on Zia to remind me how glacially slow my projects are
Yes, a summer project, but not sure which summer
Just messing with you - I always appreciate your support.
BK
Yes, a summer project, but not sure which summer
LOL!
BK, the grass is always greener... I only wish my projects were as immaculately done as your ones!
I might create a new record on procrastinating on a speaker project... drivers for an Elsinore build were bought close to two years back. Some of the XO parts even before that.
That's about right, but because if has a 'filled' part that slows down the internal sound propagation, it behaves more like 100 Litres. Usually vented box are lined and not filled, but that is not the case here, in fact the enclosure behaves somewhat more like a transmission line when using fill and you get that sonic benefit you can hear in a good and also filled transmission line. Some TL designs are lined and seems to produce a lot of bass, but a correctly designed TL that is filled may sound like it has less bass - but is actually much more satisfying in the long run. This is what the Elsinores is also aimed at.
Your sources have such good vertical distribution for a conventional cabinet.