Not sure how audible that is, really. I have a Q=1.8 peak filter set to -4 dB at 320 Hz in miniDSP Flex 8 & am running the WO24TX as a low mid 125~800Hz. Sounds great.
Actually, it sounds good enough to run it way higher -- 3 khz -- if you're not obsessing about directivity. My 4 ohm samples are quite linear; between 800 and 3.2 kHz, it's probably +,-2 dB.
Here's an on axis sweep in REW (with no smoothing other than what REW automatically applies) --
Note, the above curve with the driver on a 15.5" wide open baffle, Hence the early roll-off below ~250Hz.
I also had no problems with the 34NRXL at those relative high crossover frequencies. There is it's disturbance a little higher in frequency but it never occoured a problem in the complete speaker design or sonically.
Do you have the driver on hand - could you perform THD over frequency measurements at different levels, similar to mine?
I'm happy with my drivers for home cinema use but when adapting for PA the B&C would be interesting.
Active for the measurements, I believe 4th order - but I'm not 100% sure. The passive design was finally 2nd order.
But for studio/music listening use I only use the active design.
WO24P measures also very good in that range and is significant cheaper. When using up to 1kHz it's the TX membrane. Up to 500Hz ... not sure, should not be THAT much of a difference.
Kartesian - it's sometimes a mixed bag. I use their 8" for my home cinema - has a more detailed sound as the PHL, PHL was amazing for voices.
But not all of their drivers are up to the price in my opinion.
Is there a basic difference in cone composition between NRXL and NRXS models?
I used the 8" SB Acoustics SB23NRXS45-4, first in a compact 3way, crossing at 500hz to Vifa NE123w mid, that then got modded to a 4way by adding a warmer sounding 6.5" mid-bass, crossing (passively/expensively) at about 180hz. This just says something about personal taste that can't be seen in measurements. I thought the SB Norex cone sounded too dull in the lower mids. Others obviously think differently.
I realize that this thread leans towards expensive builds and preferences, so I realize that I may be a bit out of context here, but: I also seem to like certain very lively 8" and 10" pro drivers in the 150-500hz range, especially. To me, they make acoustic instruments come alive. A large, light, well controlled cone makes acoustic guitar, or drums, or (or?) seem very "present" and realistic---- at least compared to, and in the context of, an amplified concert experience that uses a good sound system.
Three 10" examples I have: Vintage JBL2251J and JBL2123H 10" midranges, and the higher Q, inexpensive, Faital Pro 10FE200, which is called a woofer, but definitely needs bass support for full-range use in smaller cabinets (I like it in a dipole). Maybe Faital has less consistency in specs, as some have said, but I really like the warm tone of these affordable 10" drivers.
I also like some more "mellow" sounding speakers I have built, and some commerical designs I have modded---these are fine for general music enjoyment, but they tend to "excite" me less. Maybe a higher sensitivity, dome-mid, design is in my future?
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Yes, I have been feeling badly about any movement of the thread in that direction I have caused. I suppose 3-ways with dome mids will tend towards more expensive in general, but I am sure that great speakers can be built without spending crazy amounts.
Truthfully, some of my willingness to spend on this project is related to the stage of life I am in, that I have been thinking about an ultimate build for years and years. I also am willing to spend money to make up for inexperience and engineering talent, e.g. at this point I would probably spend more to have a driver well-behaved well beyond where I would use it (sort of alluded to by @IamJF above) just to make the crossover easier (or less likely for me to screw up).
Nonetheless, I hope my musings don't dissuade people from participating in the thread.
Bill
Yes, it seems so on the measurements I have been able to find. I just wish I could see some good measurements on the vKi line, they seem to have gone all-out on the engineering of those.
I have been thinking along this same line for the future, but right now it makes more sense for me to hone my skills further, and also to conserve money. Also, a big piece of it is that when I finish a project, I tend start another one. Many of us probably have the tendency to be perpetually imagining the next project.
My dad, who passed in 2010, wanted to hold-on to parts for his cherished project-to be, when he was past the point of physically being able to actually accomplish anything of the sort. The imagined future is most believable and promising when we have hopeful plans for it.
I have one older build that is in a continual state of (mostly mental) revision, largely because my expectations and knowledge have both increased over time. Also, I put the wagon before the horse with the woodworking back in 2016. I did build a prototype; but did not do thorough testing---I knew less about testing, crossover building and driver properties at the time.
For folks that are just learning about 3ways, without a big budget, it is probably best to use a cone mid that is well behaved, with a woofer that rolls off gracefully, and just about any decent quality 1" dome tweeter. There may be a few such folks reading here. When that works out, then try one with a mid-priced dome---unless $$$ is no-issue.
Kartesian provides very extensive measurements in the datasheets, like Purifi:
https://www.kartesian-acoustic.com/_files/ugd/f62092_f4db69c69657404f8edce8f61ada3010.pdf
All great points/thoughts. And yes re. perpetually imagining the next project. If the next project involves another speaker, then an incremental approach with a mind to conserving money makes perfect sense. I have (always) many projects floating around in my head, but thankfully it is not other speakers, so hopefully the speaker-building desire/quest will be satisfied with this one. Part of my quest for sensitivity is based on the tube amp design in my head, but it may not be practical, as active might be the most straightforward approach with this build.
Loved this.
Definitely. Especially with all of the Klippel data. Perhaps the one thing I would like to see is a zoomed in graph of impedance/any other measurements that would uncover any resonances in the intended passband. Though I am probably just splitting hairs- all of the drivers discussed are in their piston range up to 500hz.
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