Counting everything - my labor and the tools excluded of course - my 375L Vintage Monitor cost me circa 600-700€.
SPECS :
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- wood, glue and screws
- front simili covering and wood oiling
- custom nameplates
- inside filling material
- one set of speakers (2nd hand)
- a second set of speakers (2nd hand too, for spare)
- crossover parts
- wiring and miscellanous (terminals...)
SPECS :
- glued-laminated Beech wood cabinet (Hêtre lamellé-collé) 18mm thick.
- oiled natural satin finish.
- dark grey tumbled simili leather on front and rear faces.
- cotton wool full filling/damping.
- "612SP" 6-12dB serial crossover, LPF = 400Hz, HPF = 5000Hz
- BEYMA 12B100R Woofer (12", 4" voice coil)
- BEYMA 8M60N Midrange (8", 1"1/2 voice coil).
- BEYMA CP21/F "horn-blade" Tweeter (1"1/2 voice coil).
- V=75L net (88L acoustic with stuffing), tuned at 35Hz.
- LV=140mm, SV=78.6cm2.
- n=5.4 (slightly overdamped operation)
- EFF=93dB/w/m.
- PWR=40-50WRMS.
- F3=36Hz, F6=29Hz, F10=25Hz.
- dimensions : 750x420x360mm.
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No less smooth than a direct radiating driver in a flat baffle. An expensive compression driver for an MEH is a BMS 4592 ND. Here is what I get after EQ (psychoacoustic smoothing, first order crossover filters at ~500 Hz and ~6100 Hz):
Chris
I seem to recall confident statements like this from dipole enthusiasts and wideband enthusiasts but when it came to careful listening tests well designed boring conventional speakers seemed to come out on top. I have not messed about with MEHs which look fun but have some familiarity with very budget pro drivers and what gets sacrificed for high output and low cost.
What relevance does patents and patent infringement have to hobby DIY designs?
DIYers are still bound by the same patent laws as commercial entities (US law, as accepted by the EU and elsewhere). If you build even one patented invention for personal use, you're infringing. There is more discussion on this subject on the forums. I'll not clutter up this thread with those discussions. If you wish to infringe, that's up to you.
Chris
If you want to imply that I'm incompetent or a liar, that's also your prerogative. I will refrain from such accusations, however. I've heard both loudspeaker types (really good ones in the case of direct radiators and planars). I don't say what I have said lightly or flippantly. You should listen to some good DIY MEHs.
Chris
My point was about prices. I was not presenting a design only variations around the conventional configuration. Not sure about overcomplicated but I agree there seems to be some confusion related to what design challenge might mean. I was expecting some discussion around a fuller spec or objectives but others seem to be posting any 3 way speaker with a budget of around $1000.
Patents are issued to prevent commercial exploitation by others. If there is no commercial exploitation a patent is irrelevant.
Not sure there is good way to reply to a post like this that would keep a civil chat on MEHs going.
This is incorrect where I live (USA, and in the agreements on USPTO patents overseas with other countries). People have paid heavy court-assessed penalties based on this mistaken notion. That's all I intend to say on that subject.
Chris
I don't know how you got that impression from @andy19191 post. ??? Some people will prefer the unique sound radiation characteristics of an MEH. Not everyone will.
That's not bad. I'll have to try a MEH at some point.
Once I did try measuring my direct radiating system; with psychoacoustical smoothing.
But I agree- they do need careful selection of very high quality, well design (but not boutique) drivers.
My target to overshoot the excellent JBL 4367, but in more modest proportions that suited my room.
I aimed for 93dB/2.83V sensitivity.
But to achieve a smooth response, I had to go three way and DSP/tri-amped.
Here's an unsmoothed measurement
One of rare opportunity to do distortion in the dead of the night; noise floor is ~35dB
CTA2034A:
With thanks to @bikinpunk I was able to compare JBL's excellent 4367:
Now Erin's NFS shows all the lumps and bumps, warts an all, because it has a measurement resolution of 2Hz. My measurement resolution is much more, about 200Hz. But I've correlated them with near field measurements to ensure that the drivers don't have any hidden resonances that are not seen in the farfield.
Reference:
https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/jbl_4367/
Horizontal 0-90, in 10 degree steps.
It's unfortunate that they drivers are NLA or difficult to source. (MOQ 300 according to Peerless/Tymphany for the XXLS 12" 8 ohm woofers and B&W spare parts only shipped only to USA) (LF + MF cost ~USD $200 ea, HF driver US$50) otherwise I would document the design for others who may want a conventional direct radiating, high senstivity, high SPL system of moderate proportions (2 box cabinet 47 1/4" high x 13 3/4" wide x 15 3/4" deep)
Even further improvement could be done with facets or large round-overs close to the tweeter edges, which was my original intent, but my cabinet maker was unable to organize.
All responses above are heavily DSP optimized and a on-off build, but I took care to ensure that the design used drivers with smooth responses to that it is convertible to passive, which I have intentions to do another time, particularly in the MF/HF part.
But it's not far to compare a heavily tuned one-off speaker to a speaker put into In mass production.
Any passive system would deviate by at least another +/- 1.5 dB is my rough estimate.
I'm curious about the MEH, but the only good measurement I've seen is from Erin. I wasn't surprised at the response- some compromises are needed to get that level high level of sensitivity (95-100dB/2.83V), so of course the anechoic response is not as smooth as a direct radiating system. But I am curious about how it sounds in a room, which as you mentioned, may not sound as bad as it looks anechoically.
Reference: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/danley_sh50/
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Let me violate one prescription - 3 way.
1 each 2 way 54-20000 hz less wood & fixtures $492.37 two for $984.67
1 sub 20-54 hz $464
BOM
2 way 54-20000 hz BOM
2 ea Eminence woofer Deltapro-15a $155 ea $310
2 ea Eminence CD N314-T8 $188 $376
2 ea Eminence horn H14ea $ 73.43 $146.87
1200 hz 12 db butterworth
4 ea janzen 1.4 mf 18 ga $ 25.14 $ 50.28
4 ea solen 12 uf 400 v poly $ 17.80 $ 35.60
10ea resistor 1 ohm 10 watt $ 5.00 $10.00
4 ea dual binder jacks $ 8.00 $ 16.00
2 ea speakon jacks $ 9.00 $ 18.00
2 ea tungsten limiter $11.00 $ 22.00
Total $492.37 $984.67
20-54 hz eminence lab 15 1 ea $335.00 $335.00
Speakon jack $ 9.00 $ 9.00
crossover sub NADY used $ 50.00 $ 50.00
Amp 150 w Peavey MMA-8150T $ 70.00 $ 70.00
sub 20-50 hz $464.00 $464.00
1 each 2 way 54-20000 hz less wood & fixtures $492.37 two for $984.67
1 sub 20-54 hz $464
BOM
2 way 54-20000 hz BOM
2 ea Eminence woofer Deltapro-15a $155 ea $310
2 ea Eminence CD N314-T8 $188 $376
2 ea Eminence horn H14ea $ 73.43 $146.87
1200 hz 12 db butterworth
4 ea janzen 1.4 mf 18 ga $ 25.14 $ 50.28
4 ea solen 12 uf 400 v poly $ 17.80 $ 35.60
10ea resistor 1 ohm 10 watt $ 5.00 $10.00
4 ea dual binder jacks $ 8.00 $ 16.00
2 ea speakon jacks $ 9.00 $ 18.00
2 ea tungsten limiter $11.00 $ 22.00
Total $492.37 $984.67
20-54 hz eminence lab 15 1 ea $335.00 $335.00
Speakon jack $ 9.00 $ 9.00
crossover sub NADY used $ 50.00 $ 50.00
Amp 150 w Peavey MMA-8150T $ 70.00 $ 70.00
sub 20-50 hz $464.00 $464.00
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YES!…..you understand perfectly. Small compact systems that don’t intrude on valuable floor and storage space or don’t call attention to themselves are on the commercial forefront. That being said, you could build the most resolute and value driven ‘MEH’ in the history of MEH’s And regardless, these won’t find a place in many homes…..single middle aged and later vintage men without constraint.
I didn’t require hardware or cabinet materials in the budget constraint..only drivers and XO components
The cost for the drivers of the Open Source Monkey Coffin is just below USD 1000 (per speaker, not the pair). At least it was last time I looked. Exchange rates and everything else in the world have gone wild since then, so depending on where and how you look at it the drivers may be cheaper or more expensive now.
That said, I don't see how it makes sense to put a cost limit on the drivers and then ask for suggestions on parts. You'd need a lot more detail on the design goals to come up with a design that will make sense. With the Monkey Coffin we had a long list of details on the design goals to start with, and this was still way too crude to avoid many long discussions on our target down the road.
That said, I don't see how it makes sense to put a cost limit on the drivers and then ask for suggestions on parts. You'd need a lot more detail on the design goals to come up with a design that will make sense. With the Monkey Coffin we had a long list of details on the design goals to start with, and this was still way too crude to avoid many long discussions on our target down the road.
In the US this is incorrect, as a practical matter though litigation is untenable in personal-use cases given the costs to do so vs. damages.
Wrong. The law in France allow you to do this for your personal use without any infringement. And not only in France : Italy, Germany, Spain, among others.
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