Please post your driver choices, alignment and thoughts each in one post. Crossover components don’t need to be listed but please post your budget for components. Box build and hardware are not included. Thanks for participating!
For the tweeter i‘ve chosen the Fountek NeoCD3.0 https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...3.0m-blk-3-ribbon-tweeter-round-flange-black/
No surprise here my love of true ribbons when used correctly……from 4khz I don’t think you can find a better device u you need very high output for a large space
For the midrange, I’ve chosen the SS Discovery 4” https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...anspeak-discovery-10f/8424g-4-midrange-8-ohm/
Response curve is fantastic as is power handling as a mid driver. It’s also really small and can effectively be crossed over very high to the Fountek to keep the CtC spacing manageable and lobing minimal…..at a listening distance of 2.5 meters, these two drivers will blend together like butter and chocolate!
For the woofer, this is where I’ve made my budget compromise and in my opinion, bass response is just as much about the alignment, box construction and placement as it is about the driver itself. I’ve chosen the Dayton DCS385 15” woofer. https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-DCS385-4-15-Classic-Subwoofer-4-Ohm-295-206?quantity=1
In a well constructed sealed 2.5cuft box, this driver will easily do 35hz in room F3 with boundary and room gain. The response is super smooth up to 400hz where I’d hand it off to the SS mid driver.
I‘ve left myself $225 for crossover components allowing for shipping cost of the drivers. The response curves of the drivers are very smooth so not a lot needed here. I summize 1st order high/low for the woofer and mid isn’t only possible but ideal.
Build will be three separate boxes stacked. The SS mid will be in an aperiodic enclosure and the Fountek on just a baffle isolated to keep resonance from disturbing the very light ribbon.
No surprise here my love of true ribbons when used correctly……from 4khz I don’t think you can find a better device u you need very high output for a large space
For the midrange, I’ve chosen the SS Discovery 4” https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...anspeak-discovery-10f/8424g-4-midrange-8-ohm/
Response curve is fantastic as is power handling as a mid driver. It’s also really small and can effectively be crossed over very high to the Fountek to keep the CtC spacing manageable and lobing minimal…..at a listening distance of 2.5 meters, these two drivers will blend together like butter and chocolate!
For the woofer, this is where I’ve made my budget compromise and in my opinion, bass response is just as much about the alignment, box construction and placement as it is about the driver itself. I’ve chosen the Dayton DCS385 15” woofer. https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-DCS385-4-15-Classic-Subwoofer-4-Ohm-295-206?quantity=1
In a well constructed sealed 2.5cuft box, this driver will easily do 35hz in room F3 with boundary and room gain. The response is super smooth up to 400hz where I’d hand it off to the SS mid driver.
I‘ve left myself $225 for crossover components allowing for shipping cost of the drivers. The response curves of the drivers are very smooth so not a lot needed here. I summize 1st order high/low for the woofer and mid isn’t only possible but ideal.
Build will be three separate boxes stacked. The SS mid will be in an aperiodic enclosure and the Fountek on just a baffle isolated to keep resonance from disturbing the very light ribbon.
Strange request. What do you want to achieve? Will you organize an event with a competiton or is this for theoretical interest? When you need help with a design jusk ask for it and not give us "commands to randomly post something" , hard to support from such unspecific requests with no further requirements and background. 😳
This is under $1K (US) per loudspeaker (even using DSP crossover and multi-amping):
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ne-tuning-phase-pics-and-vid-included.383973/
The 12" woofers do not need to be the expensive FaitalPro's, thus saving a great deal on driver costs.
Chris
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ne-tuning-phase-pics-and-vid-included.383973/
The 12" woofers do not need to be the expensive FaitalPro's, thus saving a great deal on driver costs.
Chris
The spec is incomplete but doesn't seem particularly strange. $1000 is around the minimum budget for a genuinely high fidelity 3 way and so seems worth chatting about.
Usually a speaker configuration would come before searching for drivers to fit that configuration. The OP has opted for a ribbon tweeter, small mid, cheap large 15" woofer which would seem to imply a large ported monitor-type speaker. Unless I have misunderstood it would seem to be neither a party speaker or a high fidelity speaker but one for those that place high value on ribbons and large drivers.
Assuming one is free to choose the configuration then I would lean more towards a 2 x 8", 4-5" mid and tweeter with waveguide using standard range drivers in order to raise the bang for buck in terms of technical performance. Ported tower, sealed with subs on-wall or on stands perhaps requires a more complete spec. Tower vs monitor? Sub vs no sub? High output vs standard levels?
There were some lengthy threads on monkey coffins a few years back which might provide guidance on what to do and what not to do.
Usually a speaker configuration would come before searching for drivers to fit that configuration. The OP has opted for a ribbon tweeter, small mid, cheap large 15" woofer which would seem to imply a large ported monitor-type speaker. Unless I have misunderstood it would seem to be neither a party speaker or a high fidelity speaker but one for those that place high value on ribbons and large drivers.
Assuming one is free to choose the configuration then I would lean more towards a 2 x 8", 4-5" mid and tweeter with waveguide using standard range drivers in order to raise the bang for buck in terms of technical performance. Ported tower, sealed with subs on-wall or on stands perhaps requires a more complete spec. Tower vs monitor? Sub vs no sub? High output vs standard levels?
There were some lengthy threads on monkey coffins a few years back which might provide guidance on what to do and what not to do.
Exactly what forums are based around…..a healthy and friendly discussion and exploration of differing design philosophies when approaching a project with a budget in mind. We can consider, compare and critique each design choice or the design as a whole……nothing sinister or self serving here……..just open dialogue…….the world needs as much of that as it can get these days.
My design is a floor standing three way Andy, harken to something like the Vandersteen 2C but modular to allow for different aesthetic design choices and portability.
I‘d disagree with you on high fidelity capability…..the covered range of the mid and tweeter from 400hz up to 20khz is certainly using two VERY HIGH QUALITY drivers with proven track records and 3rd party measurements to back up their provenance. I’d also make the argument consistent with my description above in that bass is really as much about the cabinet and placement as it is the driver for overall performance. My woofer choice in a 2.5 cuft sealed box playing up to 400hz is certainly capable of articulate, powerful midbass and bass. I’ve used these drivers before and they’re an excellent value. The stamped steel frame is neither weak or resonant when mounted on a 1” or 1.5” thick baffle…….again the box design really matters here.
Majority of the speakers on the market seems to follow this recipe. Two woofers, 8-10", one mid 4-5", tweeter, dome or else.
Attachments
This is a 3 way active biamp dipole, where woofer and midrange are both $110 Dayton PA310. Total component cost including DSP is $1100. You could shave cost to below $1k by using a less expensive woofer ie $60 Dayton DC300. You would give up efficiency with that choice. You could also switch to a less expensive tweeter and a waveguide like the Visaton WG148.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/open-baffle-bass-reflex-hybrid.393837/
Constant Directivity, hybrid Open Baffle, linear phase, high efficiency, and live edge wood.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/open-baffle-bass-reflex-hybrid.393837/
Constant Directivity, hybrid Open Baffle, linear phase, high efficiency, and live edge wood.
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I love the thread topic. Not sure why people are confused...Name a set of drivers for use in an actual or theorized 3-way loudspeaker such that the total does not exceed $1,000. That's it, it isn't more complicated.
My planned build for Spring 2024:
Dayton Audio AMTHR-4 AMT tweeter
Dayton Audio PM180-8 6-1/2" midrange
2x Dayton Audio DSA270-8
$720 in drivers.
Specific crossover to be determined after measurements but something around 300Hz and 2.5Khz. Cost will be whatever the cost is for the crossover.
Vented, about 4 cubic feet, providing F3 of 35hz. (Dual 10" woofers still don't displace as much air as a single 15".)
Motivation for this particular choice of drivers: 90-91db 2.83v/1m full-space sensitivity after baffle-step loss.
My planned build for Spring 2024:
Dayton Audio AMTHR-4 AMT tweeter
Dayton Audio PM180-8 6-1/2" midrange
2x Dayton Audio DSA270-8
$720 in drivers.
Specific crossover to be determined after measurements but something around 300Hz and 2.5Khz. Cost will be whatever the cost is for the crossover.
Vented, about 4 cubic feet, providing F3 of 35hz. (Dual 10" woofers still don't displace as much air as a single 15".)
Motivation for this particular choice of drivers: 90-91db 2.83v/1m full-space sensitivity after baffle-step loss.
I would suggest in a $1000 3 way where budget is a significant constraint the most important driver is likely to be the midrange, the least important the tweeter and the most expensive the woofer/s. You seem to have opted for too small a midrange relative to the woofer in the hope the crossover to the ribbon is not too badly compromised. You seem to have opted to spend too much of the budget on the driver that contributes least to overall sound quality (assuming the objective is conventional technical performance). You have opted for a tweeter that tends to have a characteristic rather than neutral sound. This isn't necessarily a poor choice if part of the objectives for the speaker which I took it to be.
Not sure what is meant by very high quality. Given the budget of $1000 the drivers are going to be from a manufacturers standard or even budget ranges and not their premium ranges which one would tend to associate with the highest quality.
I have looked up a set of standard drivers that might work together and here they came to $880+postage+taxes(complicated) while being $675 in the US. With the current price for decent ply complete speakers here are going to be well over $1000. A couple of years ago a budget of $1000 for the pair would have been comfortable. Perhaps $1000 current US prices would align things?
Given a significant budget constraint the laws of physics, manufacturing costs and what is considered acceptable/reasonable/attractive in the home will tend to mean the majority of commercial speakers with a high technical performance are modest variations around an optimum configuration. I suspect that optimum will be viewed as a bit boring by many DIYers but it is almost certainly going to offer the most bang for the bucks in terms of technical performance.
I was wondering when someone was going to say something like this.
Consider the loudspeakers of post #5 a bit more carefully, or these (a three way design via dual-diaphragm compression driver). Business-as-usual will not likely emerge unscathed after hearing a dialed-in pair of these. To be fair, I think the FUD factor is still there vis-à-vis USPTO 8284976 (vs. the original 6411718 patent, now defunct). It shouldn't be, however, since one can easily make a loudspeaker of the older patent type without infringing on the second (still in effect) patent...and still get full performance.
Chris
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Probably ceramicos kit by Jeff bagby and javad is around 1k, that utilizes sb23 Sb15 and sb26 ceramic drivers. Looks unbeatable to me for the price range.
This 3-way active system can be built for $500 per side in drivers, plus another $550 for the hypex amp.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/new-project-tower-3-way-with-twin-8s.378223/post-6816455
The cherry veneer adds a bit of cost, so a painted finish would keep the cost down. Hypex fusion amps are not the least expensive option for DSP filtering and amplification, so some cost could be saved with a different electonics/software package.
Since the crossover filters are DSP-based, the end user can adjust the response to favor a flatter on-axis response for near field situations, or a smoother PIR response for a more typical listening distance. Bass levels can easily be matched to the room. It is even possible to tailor the DI curve to some extent by altering the mid/tweeter filter slopes.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/new-project-tower-3-way-with-twin-8s.378223/post-6816455
The cherry veneer adds a bit of cost, so a painted finish would keep the cost down. Hypex fusion amps are not the least expensive option for DSP filtering and amplification, so some cost could be saved with a different electonics/software package.
Since the crossover filters are DSP-based, the end user can adjust the response to favor a flatter on-axis response for near field situations, or a smoother PIR response for a more typical listening distance. Bass levels can easily be matched to the room. It is even possible to tailor the DI curve to some extent by altering the mid/tweeter filter slopes.
@andy19191 @Cask05
I think you guys are confused or overcomplicating the OPs simple request. See above for thread topic. We'd love to see your driver and alignment choices. @andy19191 you even said above that you looked up some drivers that might work well together for $800 but didn't list them.
First order crossover filters for the MEH (a few $s, max) to achieve linear phase (guaranteed) and full-range controlled directivity, with no discernible compression or modulation distortion. All you need is EQ upstream, sort of like Bose 901s use (but with almost infinitely better fidelity in this case).
The compression driver cost can go from $200 to $700, and woofer costs are low: much less than $200 each.
You don't need expensive drivers when placing them inside a well-designed horn. You do need expensive drivers if trying to do the same thing with direct radiating drivers.
Chris
The compression driver cost can go from $200 to $700, and woofer costs are low: much less than $200 each.
You don't need expensive drivers when placing them inside a well-designed horn. You do need expensive drivers if trying to do the same thing with direct radiating drivers.
Chris
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Interesting.
When you say psychoacoustic, can you expand on this?
I interpret your comment to be be higher sensitivity and higher dynamic range, but slightly less smooth frequency response, for a general MEH?
eg. +10dB sensitivity, frequency response not as smooth but equivalent when smoothed to an to accuracy of 1/3 octave below 100Hz, 1/3 octave to 1/6 octave between 100 Hz and 1 kHz, and 1/6 octave above 1 kHz, with more weighting to peaks.
@mayhem13
I like this game. But I also like the- what can be done for
Bar of soap size (Google Nest mini)
0.125 cu ft (Wonderboom 3)
0.25 cu ft (~LS3/5A size)
0.5 cu ft
1 cu ft.
2 cu ft
4 cu ft.
Etc.
I think that is the real challenge.
As they get smaller and smaller I think plastic (or 3D printed) cabinets, and DSP and class D are a must. The transducer is important but is of secondary importance.
For instane the Wonderboom uses dual opposed 2” twoofers for vibration cancelling, and dual opposed passive radiators orthogonal to the twoofers. Insane performance for a 1 litre external enclosure.
The “ high end “ want boutique materials and artisan craftsmanship and an extra zero to the price. But that doesn’t mean much in terms of sonics.
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