I couldnt resist those shots, very encouraging. More to the point, the "Aesthetics Police" concur😀 These speakers are to be allowed into the inner sanctum, by she who must be acknowledged.
FE208's are on the way; thanks, Jay... BIB's coming as soon as time permits. My hope is to "wrench" useful and sufficient treble out of them by way of DEQ. I believe this is possible in the 24db realm of the digitally manipulated.
ChrisMmm,
TC mentioned to me that the newer 208 takes a year of regular use to start making its real voice heard, where the banana cone needs to loosen up. He cautioned to really burn these drivers for at LEAST 100 hours using solid state amps, that they never will work in using just their intended (SET) partners. It is the flexure of the stiff, almost kevlar-like cone that brings the top end on, and these are champions at layering the sound. A fully worked in one is really extraordinary in the BEN, with the Fostex tweeter to balance out the spectrum, put the mids into perspective. And lightning fast. I am sure the T amp helps generate some impressive dynamics. I will be finding out for myself.
FE208's are on the way; thanks, Jay... BIB's coming as soon as time permits. My hope is to "wrench" useful and sufficient treble out of them by way of DEQ. I believe this is possible in the 24db realm of the digitally manipulated.
ChrisMmm,
TC mentioned to me that the newer 208 takes a year of regular use to start making its real voice heard, where the banana cone needs to loosen up. He cautioned to really burn these drivers for at LEAST 100 hours using solid state amps, that they never will work in using just their intended (SET) partners. It is the flexure of the stiff, almost kevlar-like cone that brings the top end on, and these are champions at layering the sound. A fully worked in one is really extraordinary in the BEN, with the Fostex tweeter to balance out the spectrum, put the mids into perspective. And lightning fast. I am sure the T amp helps generate some impressive dynamics. I will be finding out for myself.
A whole year - thats commitment for you! Comparisons with a good red wine come to mind.
Maybe someboy could develop spray on aging🙂
I had been leaving the system playing during work hours at a reasonable level till I got my 100hours, think I will keep that going a bit longer. Let me see - 10 hours a day for 2-3 months should do it!!
Maybe someboy could develop spray on aging🙂
I had been leaving the system playing during work hours at a reasonable level till I got my 100hours, think I will keep that going a bit longer. Let me see - 10 hours a day for 2-3 months should do it!!
Hi Chris
I have 208s in a Ron Clark Dallas II Horn.
They really do mature like a good red wine, 18 Months plus and still getting better.
Verk.
I have 208s in a Ron Clark Dallas II Horn.
They really do mature like a good red wine, 18 Months plus and still getting better.
Verk.
Cool, are you using a super tweeter?
When I think about it I kinda like the idea that my speakers will get better and better over the coming years. Maybe that will stop me upgrading other system components - NOT!!
The 168s were certainly improving over the year since I built them but its subtle - like watching yer kids growing up!
When I think about it I kinda like the idea that my speakers will get better and better over the coming years. Maybe that will stop me upgrading other system components - NOT!!
The 168s were certainly improving over the year since I built them but its subtle - like watching yer kids growing up!
Just like your's Chris
T90A with 1uf cap.
Kept the 1uf cap, room was kind of dead, tried lower value caps but lost too much sparkle.
BTW, I think my hearing reception only goes to about 11 kH now so I'm not the best person to judge HF and supertweeters.
Verk.
T90A with 1uf cap.
Kept the 1uf cap, room was kind of dead, tried lower value caps but lost too much sparkle.
BTW, I think my hearing reception only goes to about 11 kH now so I'm not the best person to judge HF and supertweeters.
Verk.
Yes, I thought my hearing was not that hot in the top end (too many loud and distorted rock concerts in th '70's) but was surprised how much I hear from the tweet which is effectively crossed over 1st order at around 35k. My room is fairly bright but I found the main effect was on the midrange. Good way to tune it to your liking tho.
Oh, and sparkle - yes they certainly do don't they 🙂
Oh, and sparkle - yes they certainly do don't they 🙂
My speaker building bud and I finished the Pioneer BOFU and it is great, but only allowed in the "barn" which has various openings in the exterior walls. Man! You can't sit still with dance music on those things as the photo shows.. We are still tuning the tweeter. Actually, in the house it's too bassy, but more stuffing might fix that. Overall it is just so lively and coherent it's irrisistable
Since he is really limited on the space "allowed" for speakers in the house and the BOFU sounds so great, he's tempted to make a Fostex FE108E Sigma BIB. Sure it will have a lot less bass, but the BIB's have more going for them then just low bass...
Fostex FE108E Sigma BIB
The calcs on Godzilla's site are this:
L = (Line length) 88"
Zdriver = Driver 17.5" down from sealed end of cabinet
Sm = 33"^2
Now a lot of the designs have been revised.
Any comments? - are these dims GOOOD? Optimal? Any alternatives?
Speed is of the essence 'cause he wants to get them into Burning Amp www.burningamp.com
In order to get the driver at the right height we will have to raise the whole thing about 6" on a sand filled chamber it appears...
Since he is really limited on the space "allowed" for speakers in the house and the BOFU sounds so great, he's tempted to make a Fostex FE108E Sigma BIB. Sure it will have a lot less bass, but the BIB's have more going for them then just low bass...
Fostex FE108E Sigma BIB
The calcs on Godzilla's site are this:
L = (Line length) 88"
Zdriver = Driver 17.5" down from sealed end of cabinet
Sm = 33"^2
Now a lot of the designs have been revised.
Any comments? - are these dims GOOOD? Optimal? Any alternatives?
Speed is of the essence 'cause he wants to get them into Burning Amp www.burningamp.com
In order to get the driver at the right height we will have to raise the whole thing about 6" on a sand filled chamber it appears...
Attachments
Variac said:
what tweeter did u use and value of caps? I am also very impressed by Pioneer 8" BOFU.
gychang
>>> These seem to have the potential to be the best $50 speakers in the world!!
After living with the B20 plus piezo for years I felt they were the best bargain for under $100/pair.
http://www.zillaspeak.com/pioneerb20-piezo.asp
I’m sure yours are better! I love the chip board look too. Did you poly over them as a protective coating?
The B20 in some of the newer cabinets like BIBs, Changs, etc must rock!
Godzilla
After living with the B20 plus piezo for years I felt they were the best bargain for under $100/pair.
http://www.zillaspeak.com/pioneerb20-piezo.asp
I’m sure yours are better! I love the chip board look too. Did you poly over them as a protective coating?
The B20 in some of the newer cabinets like BIBs, Changs, etc must rock!
Godzilla
hi variac,
having built the fe108e sigma bib with the dimensions from the zilla site i would recommend a few changes that have previously been suggested (scottmoose? gm?). first, to get the most room gain (which these really need to compensate for the elevated midrange) i would invert them. i would then place the driver at .4 or .41 (?) line length which would bring it up to about 36" off the ground assuming 3/4" ply. not sure how much leeway there is in the dims but i would try to go a little bit bigger than 33 sq inches to allow for lots of stuffing if needed. lastly, i would definitely recommend a suprabaffle of at least 1.5" to space the driver out from the internal divider. i only used 3/4" and it's a bit tight in there.
currently i get nice bass out of my pair but have them in corners and in a part of my studio where the ceiling is lowest (6 feet). when i had them in my apt. they were not tall enough to benefit from the ceiling and the bass was substantially lower. also, i had to stuff them quite a bit to get rid of the midrange leaking out the mouth. i expect the downward firing version would experience less due to the extra bend at the mouth.
of course, having given my opinion, i would wait for the experts to chime in before reaching for the saw...
having built the fe108e sigma bib with the dimensions from the zilla site i would recommend a few changes that have previously been suggested (scottmoose? gm?). first, to get the most room gain (which these really need to compensate for the elevated midrange) i would invert them. i would then place the driver at .4 or .41 (?) line length which would bring it up to about 36" off the ground assuming 3/4" ply. not sure how much leeway there is in the dims but i would try to go a little bit bigger than 33 sq inches to allow for lots of stuffing if needed. lastly, i would definitely recommend a suprabaffle of at least 1.5" to space the driver out from the internal divider. i only used 3/4" and it's a bit tight in there.
currently i get nice bass out of my pair but have them in corners and in a part of my studio where the ceiling is lowest (6 feet). when i had them in my apt. they were not tall enough to benefit from the ceiling and the bass was substantially lower. also, i had to stuff them quite a bit to get rid of the midrange leaking out the mouth. i expect the downward firing version would experience less due to the extra bend at the mouth.
of course, having given my opinion, i would wait for the experts to chime in before reaching for the saw...
Very interesting opinion indeed, and I also would like the experts to comment...Especially on whether your driver placement should work...
Also, flipping them upside down has been mentioned before re the BIB's, but with this model it makes a LOT of sense! Good thinking.
The guy making them doesn't have a lot of furniture in the room , so it should work fine... Some of the other small drivers have been upgraded to larger internal size, so I also wonder if that would be better..
HE wants to cut wood very soon to get them ready for the Festival so I hope to get some feedback soon....
Also, flipping them upside down has been mentioned before re the BIB's, but with this model it makes a LOT of sense! Good thinking.
The guy making them doesn't have a lot of furniture in the room , so it should work fine... Some of the other small drivers have been upgraded to larger internal size, so I also wonder if that would be better..
HE wants to cut wood very soon to get them ready for the Festival so I hope to get some feedback soon....
gy chang,
I am using some Aiwa car tweeters that were said to work with the BOFU's, with a 1uF cap. The upper mids are too recessed,
I suspect that the 2uF crossover will fix things, but I have ordered the tweeter you used as it is more efficient AND it is available in case others want to make the speaker. The Aiwa is no longer available.
Godzilla,
The OSB (flakeboard) cabinet DOES look cool. It sounds great too! Costs $16 a 4x8 sheet!We haven't put urethane on it yet because we are hoping to try a transparent yellow or orange stain on them first, to bring out the pattern more we hope.. Possibly paint the small baffle the drivers are in also.
I am using some Aiwa car tweeters that were said to work with the BOFU's, with a 1uF cap. The upper mids are too recessed,
I suspect that the 2uF crossover will fix things, but I have ordered the tweeter you used as it is more efficient AND it is available in case others want to make the speaker. The Aiwa is no longer available.
Godzilla,
The OSB (flakeboard) cabinet DOES look cool. It sounds great too! Costs $16 a 4x8 sheet!We haven't put urethane on it yet because we are hoping to try a transparent yellow or orange stain on them first, to bring out the pattern more we hope.. Possibly paint the small baffle the drivers are in also.
Yep, I always advise inverting the line for a high-ish Fs driver if you're going to fold it in half (the alternative is not to fold it at all of course). Which in turn allows you to use a better-optimised driver position. 0.416 line length is what MJK suggests for a 1:10 taper, and it appears to work well for So=0 designs as well.
I haven't revised many of the designs for the Zilla pages because I simply haven't had time unfortunately.
Easy T/S based formula & stages GM created.
1) Set line length to 1/2 wavelength of Fs.
2) If a regular BIB, Zdriver = 0.217 line length, if inverted, 0.416 line length.
3) Vb=(20Vas)*(Qt^1.25)
4) Calculate the CSA of Sl by dividing the answer to stage 3 by the cabinet height,
5) Set WxD dimensions to the CSA of Sl using a ratio 1:1.4142
More damping will sort the LF of the Pioneers out in-room. Nice job guys.
I haven't revised many of the designs for the Zilla pages because I simply haven't had time unfortunately.
Easy T/S based formula & stages GM created.
1) Set line length to 1/2 wavelength of Fs.
2) If a regular BIB, Zdriver = 0.217 line length, if inverted, 0.416 line length.
3) Vb=(20Vas)*(Qt^1.25)
4) Calculate the CSA of Sl by dividing the answer to stage 3 by the cabinet height,
5) Set WxD dimensions to the CSA of Sl using a ratio 1:1.4142
More damping will sort the LF of the Pioneers out in-room. Nice job guys.
So 0.217 line length is the compromise to get the driver at ear height and 0.416 LL is the optimal size?
Pretty much. Using the position further along the horn does reduce pipe-gain a bit, but response is considerably smoother.
giantstairs said:
That is close to the recipe for the one's i heard that impressed me so much. The ripple i heard in them was also what inspired putting the Karlson Slot in my visualizations.
The Aiko is an alternate enclosure and the best i've heard the 108 (doesn't go as low as BIB and maybe even a bit bigger). Many more pieces to assemble thou (but really no harder)
dave
Attachments
Scottmoose said:
if you mean the Aikos - yup, and I ever get a chance to try them in my little room they might get past prototype stage. As Dave notes, of 3 or 4 different enclosures we've tried, the best sound yet from a unassisted or "corrected" pair of FE108ESigmas.