Yeah, BIBs done right with the cab coupled to both floor and ceiling makes for a much 'fuller' presentation whereas BLH are historically about 'punch'/'slam'/'boom' mid-bass. I only did corner horns basically like the BIB in concept, but used prosound Altec or similar that elevates them to another world of performance that's the best of both the BIB, BLH out to at least the 500 Hz point used, though never got the chance to try some Altec 604 duplex to see if they would hold up well at its ideal 1.0 kHz XO when in a BLH or even any of the equally pricey vintage 15" co- or tri-ax 'FR' drivers.
You want to build some more, try the Fane FC-152F01TC in a BIB and if possible in a corner; might just be the 'end of the road' once the usual 'FR' driver tweaks are done.
You want to build some more, try the Fane FC-152F01TC in a BIB and if possible in a corner; might just be the 'end of the road' once the usual 'FR' driver tweaks are done.
Aw ****, I just looked these monsters up.You want to build some more, try the Fane FC-152F01TC in a BIB and if possible in a corner; might just be the 'end of the road' once the usual 'FR' driver tweaks are done.
Nice.
Sadly they don't seem to be available anymore (or at all, over here in Europe). But I found some other 15" full range speakers.
A quick BIB_excel-calculation shows a depth of more than 40" and about a width of 24".... Those boxes won't fit into my living room, nor would the WAF be any good.
But man, I'll keep the thought in mind. Yeah, a BIB with them would most definitely rock.
just out of curiosity....
If you had a pair of BIB-cabinets made for the W8 2145 or 1772s and just stuck a pair of 12" drivers in there instead of the 15" ones...?
I mean yeah, the cabinet for the 12ers should be bigger, too, but if the room can't handle bigger cabinets, that's the way it is.
But sound would still be gigantic, I bet, even if the cabinet is "too small" for the 12" or 15" speakers (though it's still pretty damn big all things considered)
If you had a pair of BIB-cabinets made for the W8 2145 or 1772s and just stuck a pair of 12" drivers in there instead of the 15" ones...?
I mean yeah, the cabinet for the 12ers should be bigger, too, but if the room can't handle bigger cabinets, that's the way it is.
But sound would still be gigantic, I bet, even if the cabinet is "too small" for the 12" or 15" speakers (though it's still pretty damn big all things considered)
Oh dear, I have more of a basic understanding, so read GMs answer for the proper explanation. But a BIB has both a length and a volume. The length allows resonances for certain wavelengths, so the length is equal between driver sizes. The volume of air has a suspension type of function, like the suspension of a car. A certain spring tension and a certain amount of damping is right for one size and weight of a car, but not for another. There is a certain margin, but there are limits.
However, I found some 15" woofers that need a similar size BIB as a 10" or even some 8" drivers. Very small drivers seem to sim well in hornresp with much higher volume than the BIB calculator suggests. It's kind of the fun of it. 😊
However, I found some 15" woofers that need a similar size BIB as a 10" or even some 8" drivers. Very small drivers seem to sim well in hornresp with much higher volume than the BIB calculator suggests. It's kind of the fun of it. 😊
Yeah I know that! :-D The height/wavelength isn't so much the problem, ~4m line length in my BiBs fits for ~45-50Hz, which the 12" drivers have, too.
However their Vas is almost double that of the speakers I've tuned the current BiBs for (90 L was the Vas of the speaker, but the real volume of the BiBs is much, much bigger, ~350L or so. Just a rough guess, I haven't calculated it)
The BIB is about using ~IB sizing to 'swamp' T/S specs, relying on judicious damping, full room height boundary loading +VLF pipe tuning, so IF you maintain all but its excessive Vb it just means more damping required with a higher LF roll-off if a vent isn't added to tune it first, i.e. technically making it a ML-TQWT/ML-horn/ML-BIB depending on whose definition, though the latter defines it a bit more accurately .
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So you're telling me it can be done, without totally ruining the characteristics and the sound? :-D
hmmmm. damping isn't an issue, I can add as much as is needed.
and adding a vent is doable, too. And if it doesn't work out, I can just close the vent again with some wood, I guess.
Where I'm from, Lii song's are the only easily available big full rangers for a decent price. "Sadly" 15" speakers won't fit the BIBs, but the 12" could fit like a glove.
I think I'll keep brooding over the option, just for the fun of it.
Yes, any box type alignment is doable to a greater or lesser extent for any driver with box type alignment specs.
The Lii W-12 published specs are pure BS (not enough of them to even attempt to unravel to something maybe usable), so currently strictly for OB, heavily damped pipes tuned to actual Fs.
The Lii W-12 published specs are pure BS (not enough of them to even attempt to unravel to something maybe usable), so currently strictly for OB, heavily damped pipes tuned to actual Fs.
Yeah, HR can calculate it various ways, but the only way with what's published = 472.34 L, Mmd = 9.36 g, which is ridiculous for anything > ~4" dia., so Fs and/or Qms and/or Qes is/are bogus.
Right, T/S vented alignments officially end at a ~0.403 Qts' where Vb = Vas, Fb = Fs (vented 0.707 Qtb alignment), though there's alignments out to 0.707 Qtc (pioneer's 'critically damped' sealed alignment).
Right, T/S vented alignments officially end at a ~0.403 Qts' where Vb = Vas, Fb = Fs (vented 0.707 Qtb alignment), though there's alignments out to 0.707 Qtc (pioneer's 'critically damped' sealed alignment).
Thank you for the opinion.
I get the feeling that 12" full range drivers aren't "quite" as popular as 8" or 6" are, I guess it's hard to produce fullrange speakers that large while still producing nice clear highs?What about the FANE 12-250TC? https://www.fane-international.com/downloads/FANE-SOVEREIGN-12250TC-DS141117.pdf
Qts sits at 0.64 and they're surprisingly affordable, even over here for like 90€, quite tempting! I just stumbled upon them
Right, consider the highest pistonic frequency is the VC dia., so from this point upwards will be TL traveling waves out towards the rim in ~ random patterns and radiating at different locations on the diaphragm as the driver flexes with the highest BW being the dustcap's (DC) and why whizzers are used for the mids - up, which in turn allows a larger VC for more power handling.
Yes, they're quite the bargain and with a bit of 'FR' whizzer driver tweaking should perform better than typical 'el cheapo' 2ways, so do a search.
Yes, they're quite the bargain and with a bit of 'FR' whizzer driver tweaking should perform better than typical 'el cheapo' 2ways, so do a search.
Long story short, I have time and space for a quick little project. In my experience, those often yield the best results anyway. I have decided to revisit the Tangband W69-1042 driver. I had it in a BIB that was tuned fairly high, sounded really dynamic and very natural in acoustic music. Perhaps a little too round, but not unpleasantly so. 😉 Just not very low.
So now I want to give it another shot and make a fairly standard BIB with it. My hope is that I will get that dynamic and natural sound, along with deeper bass. Hornresp sims indicate that it should be relatively smooth all the way towards 250Hz and beyond, so it should make a nice woofer section for either a 2.1 or a FAST or WAW system.
Oh and I am using melamine wrapped particle board. I've used it in the past, it looks finished right after glueing and I find it sonically better than MDF (and cheaper than birch ply). Material has been bought, so any day now.
So now I want to give it another shot and make a fairly standard BIB with it. My hope is that I will get that dynamic and natural sound, along with deeper bass. Hornresp sims indicate that it should be relatively smooth all the way towards 250Hz and beyond, so it should make a nice woofer section for either a 2.1 or a FAST or WAW system.
Oh and I am using melamine wrapped particle board. I've used it in the past, it looks finished right after glueing and I find it sonically better than MDF (and cheaper than birch ply). Material has been bought, so any day now.
Assuming 3/4", then looks like it's ~68% stiffer > MDF, so a definite 'step up'........., though in my locale, right at 2x the price, so no bargain other than pre-sealed/finished.
Anyway, if using the OEM low BB tuning, its 35 Hz Fs will in theory make it a mini-monster subwoofer out to ~2*35/Qts'!
(Qts'): (Qts) + any added series resistance (Rs)
, though in my locale, right at 2x the price, so no bargain other than pre-sealed/finished. Anyway, if using the OEM low BB tuning, its 35 Hz Fs will in theory make it a mini-monster subwoofer out to ~2*35/Qts'!
(Qts'): (Qts) + any added series resistance (Rs)
It definitely will be mini for a BIB. Makes me a little nervous. No, curious. I ran a few drivers I am interested in through the BIB calculator and the Markaudio CHR120 needs about twice the volume. Sims nice as well, deep extension and good power handling. Right now, I want a sub-sat system, but if I was going for a pair of full range BIBs, I would probably try those. I want to do a an early stereo approach with a center channel. And do it properly, with three identical enclosures. Kind of hard to squeeze a third BIB under our television. 😆
Well, I have put the Tang Band 8" in there. first the w8 1772, and now the w8 2145. I don't really notice that much of a difference, so I replaced the pricier 1772's with the more affordable 2145's. They work wonderfully.
the BIBs are about 2,1m tall, 45cm wide and about 55cm deep. The bass regions are awesome. if the amp is turned up to a little more than 50% and the music signal is good, the BIBs will start vibrate the kitchen door 3 rooms over. me likey.
the BIBs are about 2,1m tall, 45cm wide and about 55cm deep. The bass regions are awesome. if the amp is turned up to a little more than 50% and the music signal is good, the BIBs will start vibrate the kitchen door 3 rooms over. me likey.
