Ashok, superb looking amp. Well done. Building one of these has been on my mind. What did it cost you? Was it tough to get parts?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Made in China
I think the name of the shop I was referring to is SriGuru Electronics.
Angshu
corbato said:
I think the name of the shop I was referring to is SriGuru Electronics.
Angshu
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Made in China
there were 2 types one was the 7060 which was a 7" full range. the other was a 3.5-4". I can vouch for the 7" but i never really tested the 4". remember I was 17 when i was playing with those drivers. my fav music at the time was Black Sabbath, Led Zepp, et. al.
corbato said:
there were 2 types one was the 7060 which was a 7" full range. the other was a 3.5-4". I can vouch for the 7" but i never really tested the 4". remember I was 17 when i was playing with those drivers. my fav music at the time was Black Sabbath, Led Zepp, et. al.
Don't use the JX92S, use the smaller ones
And both these alternatives will go down to 300Hz and below without any trouble, so you will be able to mate them with any woofer of your choice. In fact, you can try using even a large flat-response 10" woofer with one of them probably. (Of course, for HT satellites you have size constraints, so a smaller woofer is better.) In fact, for a smaller woofer you can even try experimenting with the 6" Bolton polycone midbass that Angshu has used for his 2-way design. They're inexpensive.
This way you even get to save some money. The JX92 is costlier than both the JX53 and the Bandor 2", I think.
Tarun
I strongly suggest that you replace the JX92 with the JX53, or maybe the Bandor 2" driver. Don't use the JX92 as your high-freq driver and take it to 20KHz. There's cone breakup and distortion. I think I'd only want to use it with a tweeter xo'd at 5K or 6K; I wouldn't want to let it go any higher. The JX53 is reportedly much better with the highs, and 7V will swear by the Bandor 2" drivers.... he takes them up to the top of the spectrum.navin said:
And both these alternatives will go down to 300Hz and below without any trouble, so you will be able to mate them with any woofer of your choice. In fact, you can try using even a large flat-response 10" woofer with one of them probably. (Of course, for HT satellites you have size constraints, so a smaller woofer is better.) In fact, for a smaller woofer you can even try experimenting with the 6" Bolton polycone midbass that Angshu has used for his 2-way design. They're inexpensive.
This way you even get to save some money. The JX92 is costlier than both the JX53 and the Bandor 2", I think.
Tarun
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Made in China
Tarun
Available. 8" dual-cone, 20W RMS rating. Rs.220. Angshu and others say its frequency curve is not very flat, but it sounds good. For that price, if it sounds good, it's awesome, I think. 🙂corbato said:
Tarun
Amp pc board offer.
For anyone interested in building an ss amp-the Pass Labs site on this forum has details of an Aleph-X power amp pcb offer.This is a diy project where apart from the boards which one of the members is outsourcing, everything else is to be procured by each builder.
I have signed up for two boards-should be in the price range of $7-10 each. There are details of bill of materials etc, and with over 400 boards already booked, there should be a lot of traffic on this thread. With many builders, it should be easy to get support from other builders..
While dont have details of how much the amp will cost, an ss amp is far easier to build than a valve amp, IMHO, esp as a first project. Also given the relatively low cost( and they plan to ship as many as possible to US addresses), it should be quite easy to ask someone there to pay for it( and arrange to bring it here)
For anyone interested in building an ss amp-the Pass Labs site on this forum has details of an Aleph-X power amp pcb offer.This is a diy project where apart from the boards which one of the members is outsourcing, everything else is to be procured by each builder.
I have signed up for two boards-should be in the price range of $7-10 each. There are details of bill of materials etc, and with over 400 boards already booked, there should be a lot of traffic on this thread. With many builders, it should be easy to get support from other builders..
While dont have details of how much the amp will cost, an ss amp is far easier to build than a valve amp, IMHO, esp as a first project. Also given the relatively low cost( and they plan to ship as many as possible to US addresses), it should be quite easy to ask someone there to pay for it( and arrange to bring it here)
Re: Amp pc board offer.
Sorry if all the answers are easily available somewhere... just thought I'd ask for a URL. 🙂
Tarun
Where can I find a summary of tech details of this amp? I looked in passlabs.com and couldn't find anything. Is this a Class A amp? What are the THD and power output figures? Can I get a look at the schematic?gjo said:
Sorry if all the answers are easily available somewhere... just thought I'd ask for a URL. 🙂
Tarun
Tarun
I did a quick search-this apparently is the second time the pcbs have been made available this way, and there is a previous thread. I too asked the same questions that you asked last week but didnt get an answer myself! This is not a Pass Labs design but has Nelson Pass' stamp of approval-looks like aclone of his design from what I can make out.
I suspect that if you can locate the previous thread you should get a lot more info-if you do, please share it with me!
George
I did a quick search-this apparently is the second time the pcbs have been made available this way, and there is a previous thread. I too asked the same questions that you asked last week but didnt get an answer myself! This is not a Pass Labs design but has Nelson Pass' stamp of approval-looks like aclone of his design from what I can make out.
I suspect that if you can locate the previous thread you should get a lot more info-if you do, please share it with me!
George
The JX53. wow. my fear was low end extension as I wanted to XO at 200Hz so that one driver operates thru teh vocal range. if i found the HF lacking I could XO to a HF unit above 5k.
my object is 95db at 2 meters from 50Hz on up in a 15 liter box. not unreasonable i feel.
my object is 95db at 2 meters from 50Hz on up in a 15 liter box. not unreasonable i feel.
BTW the 7060 if that is teh same model tarun is tlaking about was very nice in sound. i rarely look at freq curves etc... and us T/S only a guide. expereince available from forums like these is far more useful.
george, i am looking at tubes for 3 reasons.
1. experience tube sound i used to get from my Marshalls. even though i was apoor musician there was something live when i plugged my strat or blackie into these 12-15W amps.
2. want soemthing unusual looking.
3. i have built my share of SS amps. They are great for bass. I have not built the Aleph though. The Aleph class A runs as hot if not hotter than a tube PP. maybe one day I would build one and compare the sound of tube to Aleph X.
1. experience tube sound i used to get from my Marshalls. even though i was apoor musician there was something live when i plugged my strat or blackie into these 12-15W amps.
2. want soemthing unusual looking.
3. i have built my share of SS amps. They are great for bass. I have not built the Aleph though. The Aleph class A runs as hot if not hotter than a tube PP. maybe one day I would build one and compare the sound of tube to Aleph X.
BTW the best sound i heard at the times audio show was from NAD electronics hooked to a Manger - SS 2 way.
Navin
I agree with you about looks! Now that our friend has posted his valve amp's pics( Excellent execution Ashok!). I will post my Welborne Lab amps pics-they look even better at niht with 9 valves glowing red! In comparison the ss amp is a black box, nothing to write home about in the beauty department...
BTW, switching subjects, what kind of music do people on this thread listen to? I am mostly into Western music (not classical), jazz, female vocal, easy listening, as well as 60's and 70's stuff. I have also heard some pretty good stuff in the past few years that I havent heard about earlier-blue grass, an American group called "Phish", Eva Cassidy, Diana Krall..
George
I agree with you about looks! Now that our friend has posted his valve amp's pics( Excellent execution Ashok!). I will post my Welborne Lab amps pics-they look even better at niht with 9 valves glowing red! In comparison the ss amp is a black box, nothing to write home about in the beauty department...
BTW, switching subjects, what kind of music do people on this thread listen to? I am mostly into Western music (not classical), jazz, female vocal, easy listening, as well as 60's and 70's stuff. I have also heard some pretty good stuff in the past few years that I havent heard about earlier-blue grass, an American group called "Phish", Eva Cassidy, Diana Krall..
George
AC/DC, Ella, T. Monk, Zappa, Vivaldi, Chopin, Stones, The Who, Guns and Roses, Bread, Bach, L Subramanium, Trilok Gurtu, Zakhir Hussain, Black Sabbath, Clapton, Tom Petty, Jethro Tull, Dave Brobeck, Johnny Mathis, Traffic, Elvis, Sinatra, Handel, Mozart, Miles, Lena Horne, Bananarama, While Lion, Alan Parsons, Steely Dan, Megadeath, Venom, Mahler, Wagner, Musorgsky, Eagles, Pink Floyd, Doors, Smethana, Mendelsohn, some new bands i cant remember the names and some world music. of the top of my head i cant remember all i like to listen to.
music
Rock : Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull, Black Sabbath, Jimi Hendrix, Cream, Dire Straits, Moody Blues, Al Stewart
Jazz : Sonny Rollins, Miles Davis/Gil Evans, Gerry Mulligan/Chet Baker, Django Reinhardt, Stan Getz
Western Classical : Bach, Bethoven
- Ashwin
Rock : Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull, Black Sabbath, Jimi Hendrix, Cream, Dire Straits, Moody Blues, Al Stewart
Jazz : Sonny Rollins, Miles Davis/Gil Evans, Gerry Mulligan/Chet Baker, Django Reinhardt, Stan Getz
Western Classical : Bach, Bethoven
- Ashwin
George what a coincident ! Just this morning I was wondering what the guys listen to. Great minds think alike 🙂gjo said:
Anyways. i had posted some of my listening in this thread earlier. Pic below.
If recorded properly, her voice is best to audition any audio gear IMHO.gjo said:
BTW that sound effects CD you gave me is awsome. I'm finding that Steam loco clip just great for discovering my in-progress 6V6 SE amps prowess.
Attachments
Ashok
I know you're a vinyl guy, since you told me that over our second drink! Glad to know that you enjoyed the CD
It has some really good special effects which need a good sub..The steam loco is something that a lot of youngsters in this day and age wouldnt have heard.
I have a couple of albums of blue grass banjo stuff one of which has awesome bass from Bela Fleck-highly recommended, also a group called Nickel Creek.
George
I know you're a vinyl guy, since you told me that over our second drink! Glad to know that you enjoyed the CD
It has some really good special effects which need a good sub..The steam loco is something that a lot of youngsters in this day and age wouldnt have heard.I have a couple of albums of blue grass banjo stuff one of which has awesome bass from Bela Fleck-highly recommended, also a group called Nickel Creek.
George
The JX53 will probably give you enough low end
In fact, after reading a few posts by others, I've decided that a very good 2-way design is probably to mate the JX53 with the JX150 6" woofer. Will probably give you much better sound than a conventional dome coupled with a conventional midbass.
And finally, putting a xo in the middle of the vocal range may not be all that bad a thing, considering the Grand Master Linkwitz does it for his Phoenix (1.8KHz, I think). 🙂 If all other things are taken care of, it's possible that the sound quality does not suffer because the xo is in the vocal range. Maybe you could try xo-ing from the JX53 to the midbass at something like 500Hz?
Tarun
You check with Steve (7V), but I believe both the JX53 and the Bandor 2" will go down to 200Hz, maybe even 150Hz. The JX92S goes down below 100Hz. Therefore, I don't think you'll have a problem with the low end. On the other hand, the high-end will probably be much cleaner with the smaller drivers, if you don't want to add a separate tweeter.navin said:
In fact, after reading a few posts by others, I've decided that a very good 2-way design is probably to mate the JX53 with the JX150 6" woofer. Will probably give you much better sound than a conventional dome coupled with a conventional midbass.
And finally, putting a xo in the middle of the vocal range may not be all that bad a thing, considering the Grand Master Linkwitz does it for his Phoenix (1.8KHz, I think). 🙂 If all other things are taken care of, it's possible that the sound quality does not suffer because the xo is in the vocal range. Maybe you could try xo-ing from the JX53 to the midbass at something like 500Hz?
Tarun
SL is a grand master he has the equipment to get away with that. we are meagre mortals we cant challenge the laws of audio with equal disdain.
U are right 7V seems to be the person to ask.
I am totally turned on by full ranges. The 1st fullranges I heard were the planars (maggie and Emiennt) but they had poor WAF. then i heard the manger but that turned me off. lately I heard a 5.1 HT system using FE103s in a friend's freind's apt in NYC and it was real. He was using FE103 for SACD!
The I heard the Manger 2 way at teh AV show and it was real again. Khushro told me that the trick is a series notch filter at 88Hz. That can be very expensive.
Now I want to build a fullrange system too. I thought about TBs first (the W3-871) then I figured I could use a JX92 and mate it to a 160mm woofer that I saw at ALR's factory (ALR used to be related to Jordan until recently) in Essen. maybe a JX53 could work. I am trying to get ALR to send me a load of those AL cone 160mm bass units. they are made in china and hence should be quite cheap. more on that later.
U are right 7V seems to be the person to ask.
I am totally turned on by full ranges. The 1st fullranges I heard were the planars (maggie and Emiennt) but they had poor WAF. then i heard the manger but that turned me off. lately I heard a 5.1 HT system using FE103s in a friend's freind's apt in NYC and it was real. He was using FE103 for SACD!
The I heard the Manger 2 way at teh AV show and it was real again. Khushro told me that the trick is a series notch filter at 88Hz. That can be very expensive.
Now I want to build a fullrange system too. I thought about TBs first (the W3-871) then I figured I could use a JX92 and mate it to a 160mm woofer that I saw at ALR's factory (ALR used to be related to Jordan until recently) in Essen. maybe a JX53 could work. I am trying to get ALR to send me a load of those AL cone 160mm bass units. they are made in china and hence should be quite cheap. more on that later.
FR is not really FR, methinks
If I look at the FR drivers (or attempts at making FR drivers) that I know of, all of them "need help" at one end or other, sometimes both. The smaller drivers (less than 3") like the Bandor unit or the JX53 seem to go up to the top of the scale but certainly need help with the bass. The JX92S, in my opinion needs help with both extremeties; there's cone breakup at the high end and the bass doesn't go below about 60-80Hz even with assistance from the enclosure. I'd expect the same behaviour from the TangBand aluminium cone FR units; others on this forum will know more. The Hammerdynamics 12" driver does a beautiful job of mids and lows, I'm told, but needs a tiny supertweeter for the extreme highs. The Fostex units of between 6-8" probably all need a tweeter, maybe for 5K and above. Variac's Basszilla adds a Fostex 17mm tweeter, for instance. From what I've heard, the super-high-tech Manger needs help at the low end.
I think a slightly larger FR driver (5-8") will probably make a great midbass coupled with a tweeter, for a two-way satellite speaker in a sat-sub architecture. And FR drivers make great wide-range midranges from, say, 200Hz to 4-6KHz, for three-way full-range speakers, when coupled with a good woofer (take your pick) and a good tweeter. The special appeal of a FR driver as a midrange is that it satisfies the speaker designer's dream condition of having reasonably flat response one octave or more beyond both the low-end and high-end cutoffs. I think it makes speaker designing easier. (The world seems full of speakers where the natural acoustic rolloff of drivers are used as part of the crossover. I am not yet comfortable with pushing a driver to its edges this way.)
Tarun
I think he's showing us the laws of audio, not challenging them. I believe he uses ordinary "zip cord" electrical wiring for speaker cable? He apparently says that if its resistance is low enough, current capacity is high enough, and there aren't much capacitances or inductances, any electrical wire is good enough. I feel he's showing us how much junk there is among cherished beliefs in the audiophile world; he's telling us what the real laws are.navin said:
I too feel they are a great way to do things, but I am increasingly of the opinion that full-range should be treated as an approach, and not literally as a specification. In other words, if Jordan tells me the JX92S is a "full-range" driver, I'll not treat this as a statement that it can handle 20-20K with uniform accuracy. I'll just treat this as a statement that this driver can be used as a wide-range unit, with assistance from other drivers at the frequency extremeties. Some speaker builders want to use just one driver for the range 300-3K, because they believe it gives better voice reproduction. Such designers can use FR drivers effectively, as very wide range midranges; they'll probably get fairly flat response from 150Hz to 6KHz (one octave either side of cutoff freqs). I feel FR drivers, specially with cone transducers and today's material science, will need assistance to reach the extremeties. Even if material science improves, physics won't change, and things like beaming at high frequencies from a 3" or 4" dia vibrating surface will always remain a reality.
If I look at the FR drivers (or attempts at making FR drivers) that I know of, all of them "need help" at one end or other, sometimes both. The smaller drivers (less than 3") like the Bandor unit or the JX53 seem to go up to the top of the scale but certainly need help with the bass. The JX92S, in my opinion needs help with both extremeties; there's cone breakup at the high end and the bass doesn't go below about 60-80Hz even with assistance from the enclosure. I'd expect the same behaviour from the TangBand aluminium cone FR units; others on this forum will know more. The Hammerdynamics 12" driver does a beautiful job of mids and lows, I'm told, but needs a tiny supertweeter for the extreme highs. The Fostex units of between 6-8" probably all need a tweeter, maybe for 5K and above. Variac's Basszilla adds a Fostex 17mm tweeter, for instance. From what I've heard, the super-high-tech Manger needs help at the low end.
I think a slightly larger FR driver (5-8") will probably make a great midbass coupled with a tweeter, for a two-way satellite speaker in a sat-sub architecture. And FR drivers make great wide-range midranges from, say, 200Hz to 4-6KHz, for three-way full-range speakers, when coupled with a good woofer (take your pick) and a good tweeter. The special appeal of a FR driver as a midrange is that it satisfies the speaker designer's dream condition of having reasonably flat response one octave or more beyond both the low-end and high-end cutoffs. I think it makes speaker designing easier. (The world seems full of speakers where the natural acoustic rolloff of drivers are used as part of the crossover. I am not yet comfortable with pushing a driver to its edges this way.)
Any specific reason to not use the JX125 or JX150? I'd have expected them to mate more easily with the JX92S. Just curious.
Tarun
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