Very possible. If I'm not mistaken, I believe that's basically part of what the Gunness Focusing that EAW, Fulcrum, and a few others use does. The reflection is linear and time invariant, so you can precondition the signal with what you might call a 'reverse echo' that cancels with the reflections that bounce back through the horn.
Learning more about it is definitely on my to-do list, albeit a bit far down. I've heard the improvements it can make for HF horns are impressive.
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While I don't have a Synergy, I have some coax drivers (6", 12" and 15") which often are plagued by this "neck reflection". Everytime I look at the LF section FR response there are indications of a pretty straight comb filter pattern on top of the "normal", let's say, intrinsic cone response (which is an unknown, of course) starting typically at 1kHz or so (which matches coarsly to the estimated neck depth).
Up to now I've never heard of, and never tried myself, to "correct" the LF response ripple with the signal from another driver, the CD in this case... I hope to try this soon (DSP-based) and report back any findings.
Up to now I've never heard of, and never tried myself, to "correct" the LF response ripple with the signal from another driver, the CD in this case... I hope to try this soon (DSP-based) and report back any findings.
Dave Gunness is Fulcrum Acoustics.
His work at EV and EAW was groundbreaking. His departure during or after the LOUD takeover was a big loss to their "brain trust".
Having used EAW KF 750 cabinets around the turn of the century with the original DSP, then later using Gunness Focusing pre-sets, it was indeed like a new cabinet. What had been a rather nasty sounding enclosure (though very efficient, super loud, and with good pattern control) became part of an array I could find few faults with (other than the gross weight) and was quite happy to mix on for a few days a few years ago.
That said, many of the problems that the Gunness Focusing fixes are due to the reflections off of the nested horns that the KF 750 employs, and the same problems that KSTR just mentioned in post #554 with the coaxial speakers used in the Fulcrum Acoustics cabinets, problems that are rather minimal in the SynTripP design.
That said, fixing minimal problems is easier than the bigger ones Dave has tackled, I'd love to hear what he could do with the SynTripP, but it will be probably be some time before I can afford to pay the Gunness admission cost, having just bought a house and shop and far too many new toys after two years with little income
...Art
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Just starting a build of this project. Would B&C de85tn comps work in this design as I already have a couple to hand?
B&C DE85TN is a 2" high frequency compression driver- B&C DE85TN high frequency drivers - B&C 2" high power high frequency driver for speaker systems. B&C DE85TN high frequency drivers available now.
Thanks
Steve
B&C DE85TN is a 2" high frequency compression driver- B&C DE85TN high frequency drivers - B&C 2" high power high frequency driver for speaker systems. B&C DE85TN high frequency drivers available now.
Thanks
Steve
Although i completely appreciate the work that's being done here, similiar threads and the Danley camp, i can't help but wonder why there's not more of a focus on the DSP/ AD/DA multiple conversions and filters and the toll that takes on the original input signal? When i pass my files through a Benchmark DAC, i hear a clear improvement over generic devices........so why risk it with DSP engines repeatedly and then work so hard to shape it into a virtual point source? In a typical 3d closed home listening space, i just can't wrap my head around the advantages this holds to a well designed three way speaker and room treatments? Hyper loading of mid drivers as close to the HF device on a flat baffle can be just as effective IMO......without all the signal chain manipulations.
Just my 2 cents as i've always been a proponent of music as analog/acoustic......the less digitized the better. I've found reason why recordings from the good old days on 1" tape masters beat the pants off of today's material.
I won't go into digital filters here and post/pre filter ringing.....i imagine all of you are aware.
Just my 2 cents as i've always been a proponent of music as analog/acoustic......the less digitized the better. I've found reason why recordings from the good old days on 1" tape masters beat the pants off of today's material.
I won't go into digital filters here and post/pre filter ringing.....i imagine all of you are aware.
Mayhem,
In order:
1) Thanks for the glowing appreciation
.I try to keep A/D conversions to a minimum in any signal chain, as I expect most would that may build the SynTripP cabinet.
2) You are welcome to use whatever digital processing that turns your crank, "viva la DAC!". The SynTripP design does not require any DSP to be a virtual point source, it is one already, and could use an all analog signal path if DSP is "against your religion"
.3) Horn designs can provide defined pattern control with no processing, and improved sensitivity, reducing room reflections and reverberation, and speaker harmonic distortion.
Room treatments may not be needed if one controls where the sound goes in the first place, but room treatment is almost always a good idea that few implement due to financial or aesthetic considerations.
4)"Hyper loading" of mid drivers as close to the HF device on a flat baffle creates an interference pattern that can only be "fixed" at one listening angle. Perhaps I'm missing as to what that interference pattern is as "effective as". At any rate, see #3.
5) Having mixed on analog tape for more years than digital media, I am well aware of the charm and limitations of both.
The overriding reason why recordings from the "good old days" on 1" tape masters beat the pants off of much of the crap shoveled out on consumers today is because the producers, engineers, bands, microphones, and rooms they recorded in were better.
Because the financial barriers to entry in to the recording "club" using 1" or 2" tape were set so high, few recordings of crap bands exist.
With today's market filled with consumers that don't give a crap about sound, bands that can't make a dime off their recordings, and idiots spewing garbage through the interwebs that gets copied and becomes a new "trend", it is amazing when you do find a band with recordings that sound as good as those of the past.
I can point you to one- "Lake Street Dive", great live and recorded.
There are a lot of others I could mention, but who would care what an effing old fart thinks?
Art "Grumpy" Welter
"Grumpy" just paid his $800.00 (a small portion of what the hospital charged) for a ride through an eight foot doughnut that takes heart pictures, and may still be under the effect of the heart slow-down medicine...
Thanks for the good vibrations.
The scanner looked just like the one in the E-Bay ad below, though it may be a newer version. The operators could not answer any of the technical questions I asked, but the size of the electrical raceway makes me guess it uses a lot more power than my 12,000 watt PA does ;^).
It is wild to watch a torus spinning around your body at what looked like about 120 RPM.
At the prices they charged for a 15 minute CT "ride" a hospital could pay for the machine in about 2 days.
I should sell my sound system and buy one of them, rent it to a small hospital and start making the money back I paid out....
Cheers,
Art
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Sounds like a CT scan. It's like an x-ray, except they take video instead of a photo and do that while spinning around you. Which means you get the equivalent dosage of something around 1000-5000 xray photos. Fun stuff.
MRI scans are a much bigger ado. Insanely strong magnetic fields, liquid helium cooled superconductors, Specially designed faraday rooms. Fun stuff.
I'd start your enterprise out with a CT.
MRI scans are a much bigger ado. Insanely strong magnetic fields, liquid helium cooled superconductors, Specially designed faraday rooms. Fun stuff.
I'd start your enterprise out with a CT.
Hey Art, hope you're ok and the tests come out ok. I've had a number of rides through those things in recent years, my wife had one yesterday (she seems to be ok, though).
Glad to see you got back in the "buying toys" and shop part of life. I retired a few years back, so my toys from here out will be limited (but that only adds to the glee when my DIY audio stuff still reliably beats any systems I've heard that cost more than what I earned in the best year from back when I was in the work force!).
Mayhem, have you heard a constant-directivity point source? To my ears, they are very special, no vertical stacked multiway compares.
Glad to see you got back in the "buying toys" and shop part of life. I retired a few years back, so my toys from here out will be limited (but that only adds to the glee when my DIY audio stuff still reliably beats any systems I've heard that cost more than what I earned in the best year from back when I was in the work force!).
Mayhem, have you heard a constant-directivity point source? To my ears, they are very special, no vertical stacked multiway compares.
Mayhem,
In order:
1) Thanks for the glowing appreciation
I try to keep A/D conversions to a minimum in any signal chain, as I expect most would that may build the SynTripP cabinet.
2) You are welcome to use whatever digital processing that turns your crank, "viva la DAC!". The SynTripP design does not require any DSP to be a virtual point source, it is one already, and could use an all analog signal path if DSP is "against your religion"
3) Horn designs can provide defined pattern control with no processing, and improved sensitivity, reducing room reflections and reverberation, and speaker harmonic distortion.
Room treatments may not be needed if one controls where the sound goes in the first place, but room treatment is almost always a good idea that few implement due to financial or aesthetic considerations.
4)"Hyper loading" of mid drivers as close to the HF device on a flat baffle creates an interference pattern that can only be "fixed" at one listening angle. Perhaps I'm missing as to what that interference pattern is as "effective as". At any rate, see #3.
5) Having mixed on analog tape for more years than digital media, I am well aware of the charm and limitations of both.
The overriding reason why recordings from the "good old days" on 1" tape masters beat the pants off of much of the crap shoveled out on consumers today is because the producers, engineers, bands, microphones, and rooms they recorded in were better.
Because the financial barriers to entry in to the recording "club" using 1" or 2" tape were set so high, few recordings of crap bands exist.
With today's market filled with consumers that don't give a crap about sound, bands that can't make a dime off their recordings, and idiots spewing garbage through the interwebs that gets copied and becomes a new "trend", it is amazing when you do find a band with recordings that sound as good as those of the past.
I can point you to one- "Lake Street Dive", great live and recorded.
There are a lot of others I could mention, but who would care what an effing old fart thinks?
Art "Grumpy" Welter
"Grumpy" just paid his $800.00 (a small portion of what the hospital charged) for a ride through an eight foot doughnut that takes heart pictures, and may still be under the effect of the heart slow-down medicine...
Discovered Lake Street Dive a few back............unreal!
Hope all is well with you......even though I might not agree with your views on audio! Lol
If you agreed with all my opinions, you would bore me to death
.L.S.D. and their FOH and MME engineers were a gas to provide sound for.
Having spent many nights drinking in the Minneapolis "Lake Street Dives" the youngsters named their band after, they, and the band seemed quite real to me!
Cheers,
Art
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Thanks, hope your wife and you continue to be OK!
Really looking forward to having a climate controlled shop.
Much as I like the clarity and light weight of the SynTripP, my previous vertical stacked Paraline system depicted in post #557 above the Keystone Subs was more flexible for live sound applications, and the multiple HF drivers were needed to combat the HF absorption of the hot, dry NM high desert.
Down here in the swamps of upper Florida, HF travels about 10 dB better, so I don't have to lug 5 times the HF drivers around!
Cheers,
Art
I just might, but have too many "irons in the fire" right now to even think about it.
Fortunately, the doctors found nothing wrong with my heart that will require any medical attention, so other than being a little "skippy" on 5% of the beats, no problems!
Art "Skippy" Welter
