Support Peace! What can WE do....??

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#561
uli said:


BTW: Yesterday attacked this Rumsfeld my country just
because the Austrian government said no to US Army
trains thru Austria! Does this idiot believe that he can
do everything? Without a UN mandate there will be NO
f...ing train of soldiers run thru my country!
Click to expand...

Yes, I read about that. However, I think your government
approaches the problem in the wrong way. You should allow
the trains in, but at the border you should require to search
the trains for WDM. Most certainly, you will not be allowed to
do this, which will start a bureaucratic process. Menawhile,
you put the trains away in a distant railyard for a couple of
weeks. 😉 😉
 
#563
WDM

Christer said:


Yes, I read about that. However, I think your government
approaches the problem in the wrong way. You should allow
the trains in, but at the border you should require to search
the trains for WDM. Most certainly, you will not be allowed to
do this, which will start a bureaucratic process. Menawhile,
you put the trains away in a distant railyard for a couple of
weeks. 😉 😉
Click to expand...

Super idea!!
But what the hell means "WDM"???????

Uli


:scratch: 😕
 
#569
weasels

Hi Kelticwizzard,

I don´t understand what´s wrong with weasels???

They are nice animals

BTW such newspapers exist in Europe too.

Lo Level people like to read Lo Level papers.

I wouldn´t even use the NY Post as toiletpaper!
:nod: :nod: :nod:

Uli

PS: IMHO its better to be a weasel than a monkey
 
#571
It should be pointed out that the NY Post is a newspaper in America like no other.

It is owned by Rupert Murdoch, the Australian-British publishing/media tycoon, who uses the same sensationalisitic tactics that the British tabloids are famous for. He brings these to America.

It is said that if someone gets killed on the subway, the other New York newspapers will run a headline, "Subway Killer On Loose". The Post will run a headline, "Fiend Loose On Subway!!".

Most of the columnists are Australian or British-this, in a New York City newspaper.

The editorial line, along with most of the columnists, are unabashedly right-wing and pro-Israel, (although Jews as a whole do not vote particularly conservative). They even have a regular columnist, Uri Dan, who has a full column on Israeli issues several times a week.

This is a British-Australian production, by and large.
 
#572
thanks

Hey, thanks for the info,

I personally don´t take such papers serious!

Just like BILD in Germany or SUN in UK!

BTW: Murdoch is a pity and a shame for every civilized man,
we know that in GOOD OL´ EUROPE.

I feel sad about the fact that after that Iraq thing it will take
YEARS to repair the damaged friendship between our people!

I plan to go to Florida next February ( Disney for my little girl(4yrs), Golf for me) but sometimes I fear doing this, as I am
not sure to be welcome anymore.

Uli🙁
 
#573
You'll be as welcome as I was in Europe a few weeks ago, i.e., you'll take some good natured ribbing about your government, but will be welcomed and treated with kindness and respect. We have European visitors in and out of my place all the time (a couple of Italians at the moment) and have yet to have seen a single problem.
 
#577
joe dick said:
7V,

i believe that you have the wrong end of the stick.
terrorism is not born of fanaticism - fanaticism is born of greivance.
i understand that many would think the distinction very small but i think it is important to remember that something proceeds fanaticism. that something is usually a sense of desperation and impotence. as with many human emotions it is something learned, not innate.
Click to expand...

Hi joe dick

Yes, the imminence of war and this method of posting does lead us to think long and hard. Myself, I find that after my initial "reactive" posts I am trying to get to the depths of "what I really believe is right". We all have the same goal - to achieve peace and security on our planet. We hold differing views on how to get there.

Your point about fanaticism first ...

I'm not convinced that you're right, at least not completely. Can we assume that Islamic fundamentalism and fanaticism has similar roots and causes to Christian and Jewish fundamentalism and fanaticism? Then yes, a sense of desparation and impotence must be a contributory factor.

But isn't there also a kind of "existential angst" that leads people in that direction. Suppose we woke up one morning and no, we didn't find ourselves turned into giant cockroaches, but realised that, perhaps, our quest for the ultimate sound via the path of infinite tweaks and upgrades (if we just change this interconnect we'll have it ...) is no longer so important. Suppose we no longer assigned the quest any value. Then wouldn't be seek something else of value in this world? For many fundamentalist Christians and Jews, their religion - the rules, the rituals, the customs, the belonging to a larger group - gives them these values. It wouldn't work for you or me but, I think, it does for many. I don't suppose the Islamic fanatics are any different. They're working for a cause and believe that this has more value than they do themselves.

Misguided? Yes, of course but perhaps no different to the heroin addict who derives a lifestyle, and occasional peace from his habit.

Perhaps a solution is hope, love, family and freedom. Perhaps this will dissolve their feelings of angst and lead them away from fundamentalism. This is why it is so imperative that a long-term, satisfactory solution to the issue of Israel and Palestine is achieved. This is of course not so easy and, even if it were achieved (or, hopefully, when) the terrorist problem wouldn't disappear overnight because there is no solution that would be satisfactory to everyone.

However, in the meantime, whatever the existential angst, whatever the desparation or impotence, acts of terrorism - that is acts specifically targetted at civilians - are a no, no. They can not and must not be permitted and, the question is, how to stop them.

The USA's approach seems to be, I believe to isolate individual situations - Afghanistan, Iraq, ...? - and to deal with them one by one. The shock and pain of 9-11 and the threat, or worse the success of further terrorist attacks will be more than enough to keep the USA on this path.

And the USA is the Emperor now - the most powerful country in the world, militarily, financially, technically, and intellectually. We have to face it. There has always been an emperor whether it was the Romans, the British or whoever. Basically, the emperor has always acted as they wish. The rest of the world will influence them (and countries like the UK can probably be more influential than countries who are less supportive). Gosh, this sounds just like my previous posting on democracy.
My view is that we can be thankful that, as emperors go, the US is much better than most, no matter how flawed they have been on many issues. But, I know that not everyone sees things that way.

Anyway, I'm waffling on a bit. I'll just say one or two things about the war and then I'll sign off. Firstly, I heard an expert on the radio 4 today - and he sounded convincing - talk about the massive casualties being caused by the imposition of sanctions. It's not enough to allow the passage of medicine, these people don't have enough of the right kind of nutrition to maintain health. This is no long term solution. The "no war" option is not blood-free.

Finally, what of war itself? The first campaign in 1990 had as its goal the removal of the Iraqi presence from Kuwait. Clearly in retrospect, the goal should have been Sadam's removal as well.

And the removal of Sadam and his regime is the goal of the next campaign. When the UN talk of casualties in the millions or hundreds of thousands, I don't believe that they're right. With a specific campaign goal, intelligent commanders and a clear regard for the opinion of us - the citizens of Earth, I believe that civilian casualties should be limited to, say, one year's sanctions' worth.

A hard view? Yes, perhaps. I'm really struggling with this one. I've never believed that there should be 'no war at any cost'. But this one? What cost here? Should there be war? On balance, in my ernest attempt to find the best long term solution, I would say "yes".

Sorry for the length - I'm talking to myself as much as anyone else - trying to make sense. So difficult, give me speaker design any time.

Steve
 
#579
This came in my mail today:

Hi,

http://www.amnesty.org/go/iraq

This is genuine on-line petition from the amnesty International website. If
you signed those fake chainletter petitions in the past and feel cheated,
now it is time to make up for it... if you agree on the issue that is.

Take care!!

Frederik


The population of Iraq is in imminent danger of a human rights and
humanitarian catastrophe. Military action could trigger a disaster for the
people of Iraq and surrounding countries.

Before it takes any further action, Amnesty International calls upon the UN
Security Council to assess the human rights and humanitarian impact on the
civilian population of any military action against Iraq.

The assessment should take place in a public session of the Security
Council, open to all UN member states, and it must include consideration of:

- the potential effects of military action on the human rights of the Iraqi
population.
- the effects on the humanitarian situation as Iraqis are already suffering
under severe economic sanctions and violations by their government.
- the risk that military action would lead to massive numbers of people
being forced into flight.
- potential grave violations of international humanitarian law, including
direct attacks on civilians, the use of human shields and the use of
inherently indiscriminate weapons.

Amnesty International urges the Security Council to deploy human rights
monitors immediately throughout Iraq to report on human rights abuses by
any party.

Join Amnesty International's call. Sign AI's online petition to the
President of the Security Council at http://www.amnesty.org/go/iraq before
8 March. Please forward this message to others. Your appeal can make a
difference.

_________________________________________________________________

This is something we can "do to support peace"

/Hugo - still hopes its not to late. 🙂
 
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