I already have a new mini dsp shd that will handle the trade off between the bass modules and the mtm, it will also allow me to eq the entire spectrum digitally so that tool is in the box!
Edit; I appreciate the help everyone….. I know ‘what if’s’ are not really the correct process but it’s about the only way I can figure to get pointed in some kinda direction!
Edit; I appreciate the help everyone….. I know ‘what if’s’ are not really the correct process but it’s about the only way I can figure to get pointed in some kinda direction!
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It doesn't matter if it's harmonics or fundamental, if they're out of the hearing range, they're inaudible.
This may just be a side point, but dsp won't make flat baffle/narrow/dipole sound the same as each other, you still need to make that decision.
Allen, from what I read in the post I linked about the ess/heil amt I’m considering, the directivity is almost exactly the same as the mtm im building…..so my thought is in reinforcing the vertical to the topside just enough to fill in the area at head level while standing without effecting anything else? Is that how that would play out or would comb filtering and other nasties eliminate any gains? And also a more focused reflection (dipole) off the front wall is superior to a larger pattern?
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Jean Hiraga is the primary link between those two Hi-Fi worlds.
FWIW, I used some Fane bullet tweeters about ~7500 Hz and they were excellent. Bought them right here on the swap meet, IIRC. At the correct level they were subtle and natural sounding. They did help with warmth on strings, like violins.
^^Confused, because which post in that thread shows how the MTM is like the AMT?
You talk about filling in at ear level. If this was me I'd ask why it isn't right as it is... is there a null, a reduction due to directivity, an EQ issue. You are correct of course, you can't seamlessly do this from above the speaker, but there may be exceptions eg. at the very top end..
Then the question of a dipole. It has nulls to the sides and top, but full radiation behind and in front. Does this work into the shape of a room? Not necessarily. I consider it a work of art. You can find ways to use a dipole that satisfy, but the rules on how are a little hazy.
You talk about filling in at ear level. If this was me I'd ask why it isn't right as it is... is there a null, a reduction due to directivity, an EQ issue. You are correct of course, you can't seamlessly do this from above the speaker, but there may be exceptions eg. at the very top end..
Then the question of a dipole. It has nulls to the sides and top, but full radiation behind and in front. Does this work into the shape of a room? Not necessarily. I consider it a work of art. You can find ways to use a dipole that satisfy, but the rules on how are a little hazy.
Bob - AMT super tweeter mod
I have used this top mounted super tweeter method with Parts express AMT tweeters Dayton Audio AMT Mini-8 Air Motion Transformer Tweeter 8 Ohm with a high 6db crossover cap and an L-pad for tuning. The key is attenuation, the lack of is the downfall of many super tweeter application.
I have used this top mounted super tweeter method with Parts express AMT tweeters Dayton Audio AMT Mini-8 Air Motion Transformer Tweeter 8 Ohm with a high 6db crossover cap and an L-pad for tuning. The key is attenuation, the lack of is the downfall of many super tweeter application.
Pano, were they the HF 250 ?
Allen, apparently they have very narrow vertical with wide horizontal dispersion......member ICG mentioned it somewhere in there....the mtm I'm building are described the same way.
the 20 deg of vertical coverage the future mtm will provide will be centered optimally for the seated position.......im afraid there will be a higher freq dead zone when standing.
all hypothetical at this point.......just seems like the perfect setup to try super tweeters.
also wife isn't paying attention to what will show up all at once........if I bring in additional goodies later it always raises a red flag......"what's that new expensive looking piece that wasn't There before"
thx sfltrack, I'll check them out. I planned on using various value series caps to find the happy place and I have some decent foster adjustable lpads.
something like those or the foster closeouts adason mentioned could easily be experimented with cheaply.
Allen, apparently they have very narrow vertical with wide horizontal dispersion......member ICG mentioned it somewhere in there....the mtm I'm building are described the same way.
the 20 deg of vertical coverage the future mtm will provide will be centered optimally for the seated position.......im afraid there will be a higher freq dead zone when standing.
all hypothetical at this point.......just seems like the perfect setup to try super tweeters.
also wife isn't paying attention to what will show up all at once........if I bring in additional goodies later it always raises a red flag......"what's that new expensive looking piece that wasn't There before"
thx sfltrack, I'll check them out. I planned on using various value series caps to find the happy place and I have some decent foster adjustable lpads.
something like those or the foster closeouts adason mentioned could easily be experimented with cheaply.
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Bob, not the 250 IIRC. Very similar, but I don't remember the squared off horn mouth. Probably the Fane 5022, Typical bullet tweeter, a JBL clone. I put aftermarket JBL diaphragms in them. Response dropped like a rock under 7 kHz.
As sfltrack says, proper attenuation is the key. It very easy to play them too loud.
As sfltrack says, proper attenuation is the key. It very easy to play them too loud.
It’s actually not as bad as I thought, I remembered it as 10db down not 5db.
My plan is to eq out that spike @ 18k+/- and fill down to around 14k with super tweeter/series cap (6db) looks like that should work well?
Even though this is in the realm I’ll never hear I think there’s enough subjective evidence to say it does something to the overall presentation.
The mtm is a B&C de250 on a seos 10 horn/ delta 10b mid bass…….there is no changing this as I already have acquired drivers and crossover components.
For those that have used super tweeters did you ever do a measurement to see how much attenuation was used in comparison to the mains, or was it just a turn it down until it sounds blended kind of thing?
I’m all about setting things up by ear, was just curious as I’ve been trying to start out with at least close to the same sensitivity as the mains.
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Just replying to your first post. Did you see the Visaton? Looking for a datasheet I was surprised to see you can even order them through Digikey. I would expect you could find them a bit cheaper elsewhere. Data sheet is linked on the Digikey page.
Thanks Pano, Well I have a Umik with the minidsp so I’ll be able to see and hear what’s happening. But will take the 6db into consideration for sure.
Brett the way I test by ear is to find the highest tolerable spl for a given tweak on highly familiar high resolution test tracks, then when dialed back to normal listening levels it usually equates to smoothness. Works well for me.
Thx Hearinspace, are these something you have firsthand experience with? They seem like a quality unit.
Brett the way I test by ear is to find the highest tolerable spl for a given tweak on highly familiar high resolution test tracks, then when dialed back to normal listening levels it usually equates to smoothness. Works well for me.
Thx Hearinspace, are these something you have firsthand experience with? They seem like a quality unit.
In your snide remark you didn’t seem to acknowledge I’m using both measurement and hearing. If it sounds terrible and measures good (I’ve ran into that a few times) what good is it? In the end I’ll trust what makes me happy. I’m not designing something to sell, it will only be used in one permanent space……mine!
Preach elsewhere, I’m just asking which style super tweeters would blend best with my components/conditions.
Edit…..if you wanted to be helpful maybe you could post some actual measurements and explain which you found to work the best?
Thx
Preach elsewhere, I’m just asking which style super tweeters would blend best with my components/conditions.
Edit…..if you wanted to be helpful maybe you could post some actual measurements and explain which you found to work the best?
Thx
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Yes. I got a pair years ago from a local seller who was pushing Visaton on all his contacts (I think the profit margin was high so he could undersell anyone . . . . and he did!) . I tried them once and then left them on a shelf thinking I'd sell them and never getting around to it.
About a year ago I put together a simple biamped horn system and threw them on top of the horn with a 1st order cap. I like them a lot. I must add though that I don't have the expertise of the others here nor have I measured them. I did the choosing of cap by ear and can only say that I don't hear them when in but miss them when out. Sticking my ear right up to them , they do not have any bite. Completely subjective, I have to say.
Perhaps Pano or Allen would hazard a guess on likely suitability to your system from looking at the data sheet?
