Been wanting to try them for a long time now just to see what the fuss is about and the fact I have two sets of speakers (a 10” two way, and 10” three way) that fall off on the top.
I’ve narrowed down to two sets that would fit the system based on sensitivity, and price (under $400/pr.)
one dipole amt 404 Not Found
– ESS Speakers USA
And a horn Fostex T96A Top Mount Horn Super Tweeter
Yes I know bats, cats, dogs……blah blah, I’m more interested in the harmonics
And also I know YouTube videos aren’t the end all but I’ve seen a couple well recorded comparisons (in/out) when in the transient/focus difference is very apparent.
One cap in series around 1uf or less will get to my target area of 14-16k, attenuation with l-pad if needed.
Just wondering if anyone had any experience with either of these particular units or thoughts on anything comparable.
One thing I’ve been wondering is how super tweeters would effect a mtm, I have all the parts gathered to build a set of 10” mtm but haven’t found time to build yet. Especially interested in the dipole with mtm……it might influence my decision more if it would help fill the vertical gap a little without compromising the narrow vertical directivity that my strange slope/high ceilings are in need of.
Also does anyone have a fr for the ess amt III ? Cant seem to find it anywhere…..they list it as up to 30khz but seems odd they don’t post any graph.
Cant really afford to buy both sets and then sell one so trying to narrow it down.
Thx
I’ve narrowed down to two sets that would fit the system based on sensitivity, and price (under $400/pr.)
one dipole amt 404 Not Found
– ESS Speakers USA
And a horn Fostex T96A Top Mount Horn Super Tweeter
Yes I know bats, cats, dogs……blah blah, I’m more interested in the harmonics
And also I know YouTube videos aren’t the end all but I’ve seen a couple well recorded comparisons (in/out) when in the transient/focus difference is very apparent.
One cap in series around 1uf or less will get to my target area of 14-16k, attenuation with l-pad if needed.
Just wondering if anyone had any experience with either of these particular units or thoughts on anything comparable.
One thing I’ve been wondering is how super tweeters would effect a mtm, I have all the parts gathered to build a set of 10” mtm but haven’t found time to build yet. Especially interested in the dipole with mtm……it might influence my decision more if it would help fill the vertical gap a little without compromising the narrow vertical directivity that my strange slope/high ceilings are in need of.
Also does anyone have a fr for the ess amt III ? Cant seem to find it anywhere…..they list it as up to 30khz but seems odd they don’t post any graph.
Cant really afford to buy both sets and then sell one so trying to narrow it down.
Thx
Yes thank you Allen, just wondering how that might equate to my situation being as the mtm are the permanent goal…….I went to mtm for tight directivity due to my odd room.
Room is 14’x30’ (open on 2 sides 9’ to 24” sloped ceiling, speaker placement will be roughly 20” from the front wall roughly 4’ on each to the side walls, 9’ +/- to centered lp.
Main questions are will lobing become an issue on the mtm as the CTC from tweeters will 14” …..I’ve heard it’s not such an issue at this high of freq but don’t know for sure. And also which style would blend with more air without totally messing up directivity?
Room is 14’x30’ (open on 2 sides 9’ to 24” sloped ceiling, speaker placement will be roughly 20” from the front wall roughly 4’ on each to the side walls, 9’ +/- to centered lp.
Main questions are will lobing become an issue on the mtm as the CTC from tweeters will 14” …..I’ve heard it’s not such an issue at this high of freq but don’t know for sure. And also which style would blend with more air without totally messing up directivity?
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Like you say... while technically looking at the directivity including lobing can give you answers, at these frequencies you might be more interested in totals (it's not going to be easy in any case to control it otherwise as an add-on). If they have the same sensitivity then they may sound as loud anechoically, but one may be filling the room at the same time and the other may be using a more narrow beam. Let me know if this is too vague an answer.
As far as matching directivity is there a goal you are looking for, a reason what you have is not enough and an idea what you want?
As far as matching directivity is there a goal you are looking for, a reason what you have is not enough and an idea what you want?
if you are looking for inexpensive supertweeter, I recently worked with this little foster, and liked it
I even ordered second pair for another project
it goes to 40kHz without much beaming, way better than expensive fostex
Foster E100T10 ribbons - what quality?
its on sale at parts express
I even ordered second pair for another project
it goes to 40kHz without much beaming, way better than expensive fostex
Foster E100T10 ribbons - what quality?
its on sale at parts express
Allen, the two sets of speakers I have now both roll off significantly on top…..one of these sets will be displaced by the new mtm I’m building (eminence delta 10b’s and B&C de250) there’s kindly a dual goal one being to try my current speakers with super tweeters to see if filling the top end is an improvement to me or not…….secondly I’m trying to figure out which of the super tweeters mentioned would be the best fit for the mtm to slightly fill the room without exciting any unwanted direct reflections.
I think/hope a mtm will help with the cavernous echo sound I’m getting at low to moderate volume levels (anyway the mtm speaker parts are already acquired) one of the benefits is 20 deg. horizontals which won’t be a problem until you stand up, even though most of my critical listening is seated I’d still like to try it just for the curiosity/experience.
So question still stands which (on paper) would integrate better with the mtm horn or dipole?
Adason, those may work with the 3 ways I have but are not sensitive enough for the current 10” 2 way or the future mtm’s (94db and 97db) I’d rather have to pad them down than not have enough…….although at those prices I might just pick up a couple anyhow. Thx
Pete not a big fan of any piezo I’ve ever heard. Thx though
I think/hope a mtm will help with the cavernous echo sound I’m getting at low to moderate volume levels (anyway the mtm speaker parts are already acquired) one of the benefits is 20 deg. horizontals which won’t be a problem until you stand up, even though most of my critical listening is seated I’d still like to try it just for the curiosity/experience.
So question still stands which (on paper) would integrate better with the mtm horn or dipole?
Adason, those may work with the 3 ways I have but are not sensitive enough for the current 10” 2 way or the future mtm’s (94db and 97db) I’d rather have to pad them down than not have enough…….although at those prices I might just pick up a couple anyhow. Thx
Pete not a big fan of any piezo I’ve ever heard. Thx though
Your tweeter is moving from half-space, to less at the highest frequencies. This means the narrow one technically makes more sense and the crossover frequency makes a difference.
However what happens when you equalise the tweeter you already have? You should be able to give yourself any amount of treble you want, sans integration problems, unless the tweeter is broken. If this isn't enough then maybe you are after something outside the box.
However what happens when you equalise the tweeter you already have? You should be able to give yourself any amount of treble you want, sans integration problems, unless the tweeter is broken. If this isn't enough then maybe you are after something outside the box.
Ok, thx Allen….. yes it mainly amounts to wondering what’s outside the box! I may just pick up a set of the cheap foster ribbons adason reco’ed and see if the idea is even to my liking before committing big money. I did experiment years ago with those little mylar Audax tweeters (polydax?) added to a 3 way and recall liking the effect enough to leave them in…..I also recall the sensitivity was much lower than the speaker it was added to so maybe the foster would work.
adason, it looks like the back of those Fosters has tape over them that could be removed to try as dipoles or am I mistaken?
Edit…..on closer inspection it seems the back is the front! Now I see what you mean about ugly.
adason, it looks like the back of those Fosters has tape over them that could be removed to try as dipoles or am I mistaken?
Edit…..on closer inspection it seems the back is the front! Now I see what you mean about ugly.
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Thanks Ronald, hope your doing better!
I’ve messed around with ambience speakers before (not in this house though) and really liked it…..at one point having six channel stereo.
It’s alot to juggle for sure but worth it if you find the sweet spot……I’ve always wondered about super tweeters since my early days in audio and now that I find myself in a position to experiment I figure why not! If it straight up doesn’t work I can surely use whatever tweeters I do get in another build, or worst case if they plain suck put them up for sale.
Edit……actually those audax I tried as super tweeters were in with the mains of that 6 channel stereo setup, so a combination of both could definitely be in the cards!
I’ve messed around with ambience speakers before (not in this house though) and really liked it…..at one point having six channel stereo.
It’s alot to juggle for sure but worth it if you find the sweet spot……I’ve always wondered about super tweeters since my early days in audio and now that I find myself in a position to experiment I figure why not! If it straight up doesn’t work I can surely use whatever tweeters I do get in another build, or worst case if they plain suck put them up for sale.
Edit……actually those audax I tried as super tweeters were in with the mains of that 6 channel stereo setup, so a combination of both could definitely be in the cards!
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Iggy do you have first hand experience with them? If so which one/s and what specifically didn’t you enjoy about it.
Alan thinks keeping the directivity is preferable which would give the nod to at least some type of horn loading.
I should also add I listen a bit louder than what seems acceptable to most……as long as it’s clear and not distorted I can listen in the mid to upper 90’s @ lp
Alan thinks keeping the directivity is preferable which would give the nod to at least some type of horn loading.
I should also add I listen a bit louder than what seems acceptable to most……as long as it’s clear and not distorted I can listen in the mid to upper 90’s @ lp
@ MB : they were often seen in the french high efficiency audio scene which was very correlated to what was made in Japan in the same circle for some reason.
All what i always experienced is something drilling, not accurate in all the horn high efficiency systems I heard here or there... there were some exceptions : T925 or Beyma CPF something, can't remember !
Maybe also the crossovers were always a problem with such high cut offs...
Horn loading doesn't mean you necessarily needs a bullet tweeter. I'm ok with non controlled directivity in the trebles. a wall with just painting on it is already absorbing a part of the energy above 15K, furnitures do the job too, in my typical european LR with wood floor, carpets, etc, a dome is ok and gives me venues sound stages and ambiance enough with - 10 db at 4 meters at 20K hz ! (life is below 10 K hz often and mostly some say below 800 hz, lol, rest is informations, harmonics...ahaha)
But I will follow Allan great experience for sure. And always wanted the great Heil or a great ribbon with those high cut offs (>5K hz ?)... while again the crossover is surely a problem (Center to center... phase is maybe not a real problem though in the right side of the trade offs choices)
I like what Zaph is saying about tweeter : their low end where the crossover occurs is often more a problem in the choice than the shape of their spl level above 10 K
WHich means many those days prefer low cut offs <= 1K5 Hz than in the highs.
Surely it's just opinion and a well made design must tell the opposite, but anyway, I never heard a bullet tweeter to sound right, especially Fostexs. Ceratinly hard to integrate well !
All what i always experienced is something drilling, not accurate in all the horn high efficiency systems I heard here or there... there were some exceptions : T925 or Beyma CPF something, can't remember !
Maybe also the crossovers were always a problem with such high cut offs...
Horn loading doesn't mean you necessarily needs a bullet tweeter. I'm ok with non controlled directivity in the trebles. a wall with just painting on it is already absorbing a part of the energy above 15K, furnitures do the job too, in my typical european LR with wood floor, carpets, etc, a dome is ok and gives me venues sound stages and ambiance enough with - 10 db at 4 meters at 20K hz ! (life is below 10 K hz often and mostly some say below 800 hz, lol, rest is informations, harmonics...ahaha)
But I will follow Allan great experience for sure. And always wanted the great Heil or a great ribbon with those high cut offs (>5K hz ?)... while again the crossover is surely a problem (Center to center... phase is maybe not a real problem though in the right side of the trade offs choices)
I like what Zaph is saying about tweeter : their low end where the crossover occurs is often more a problem in the choice than the shape of their spl level above 10 K
WHich means many those days prefer low cut offs <= 1K5 Hz than in the highs.
Surely it's just opinion and a well made design must tell the opposite, but anyway, I never heard a bullet tweeter to sound right, especially Fostexs. Ceratinly hard to integrate well !
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Good to know…….I’m really leaning towards the heil amt III, after reading that the directivity of them closely matches the mtm I’m building……it may be just enough to fill in standing height gap. And also have seen foam plugs cut for the backsides if the dipole effect is too strong. There’s a thread I’m reading right now from 2018 I’ll link it if I can figure out how! To Heil AMT or not to Heil at $140, that is the question?
Ticknpop those are a bit out of my budget, although I’m sure they’re nice!
Edit…..added link
Ticknpop those are a bit out of my budget, although I’m sure they’re nice!
Edit…..added link
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I tried to stop short of actually saying that without more information.
When tuned to have correct direct sound, a speaker sounds different depending on its overall directivity. This suggests a difference can be made that way. I figured one of the clues would be seeing whether you could find an EQ setting with your current setup that you liked..
The next step would be to try widening it... however this is in lieu of building a completely different speaker which would be the first choice.
I know, just trying to bridge the gap. Flat baffle box speakers perform well in anechoic conditions but usually need a hand settling into a room.