I have asked Danley about it in the past (asking if I could license to make and sell Synergy type designs, was not given an ok - nor an outright no yet either... so there's hope? ). His partners were not in favor of doing so at present.
As of February at least he had not licensed anyone to.
As of February at least he had not licensed anyone to.
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I did find in holland these speaker, because of a low qts of 0.29 very suitable for a horn.
http://www.repromania.net/fotografi...ton-w200s-beyma-t2010-beyma-5mp60n/5mp60n.pdf
I did not simulate it, first I go sleep an recover from the stomach flu.
http://www.repromania.net/fotografi...ton-w200s-beyma-t2010-beyma-5mp60n/5mp60n.pdf
I did not simulate it, first I go sleep an recover from the stomach flu.
Mids in Synergy vs Unity
Can someone help me understand the differences in Synergy vs Unity as far as mids effect on highs is concerned?
a) In unity waveguide, the high freq from CD is badly affected by the mids. So, in synergy horns the mids are moved to corners that are low pressure areas and hence the high freq from CD is less badly affected. Lets assume that the mids operate from ~300hz to ~1200 hz.
Which freq band of mids affect which freq band of the CD?
b) Lets assume we have a compression driver that can go as low as 300hz (just for understanding lets assume we have one that goes this low). If one puts it on a simple conical waveguide with a round mouth (like geddlee speakers), ie from 300hz upto 16k, will it too result in lows from the CD badly affecting the highs from the same CD just as the unity does?
Thanks,
Goldy
Can someone help me understand the differences in Synergy vs Unity as far as mids effect on highs is concerned?
a) In unity waveguide, the high freq from CD is badly affected by the mids. So, in synergy horns the mids are moved to corners that are low pressure areas and hence the high freq from CD is less badly affected. Lets assume that the mids operate from ~300hz to ~1200 hz.
Which freq band of mids affect which freq band of the CD?
b) Lets assume we have a compression driver that can go as low as 300hz (just for understanding lets assume we have one that goes this low). If one puts it on a simple conical waveguide with a round mouth (like geddlee speakers), ie from 300hz upto 16k, will it too result in lows from the CD badly affecting the highs from the same CD just as the unity does?
Thanks,
Goldy
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There are about a hundred reasons you don't want a 1" compression driver covering 300hz to 20khz:
1) There isn't one that can do this, not that I am aware of. A $1500 Tad TD-2001 could probably get down to 500hz. I would rather spend $150 on one compression driver and four midranges personally.
2) The output of a driver is generally limited by displacement. A 1" compression driver has about as much displacement as a tweeter. So even if you have a sensitivity of 109dB, you might run out of steam at a fraction of a watt if you insist on using a very low crossover.
3) All drivers have gobs of distortion at their low ends. A 1" compression driver pushed to 500hz will probably approach 100% distortion in the bottom octave. No, I am not exaggerating.
Seriously, crossing over at 500hz, or 300hz(!!!) is just a really bad idea with a 1" compression driver. The main reason the diaphragm doesn't explode is that compression drivers are built to take a lot of abuse. But it's not going to sound good with that low a xover.
As for the Synergy vs Unity thing, the main differences are in the crossover and the configuration of the midrange taps. And the midrange taps in a Unity and a Synergy are basically in the same spot in the horn, it's the SHAPE that's different.
1) There isn't one that can do this, not that I am aware of. A $1500 Tad TD-2001 could probably get down to 500hz. I would rather spend $150 on one compression driver and four midranges personally.
2) The output of a driver is generally limited by displacement. A 1" compression driver has about as much displacement as a tweeter. So even if you have a sensitivity of 109dB, you might run out of steam at a fraction of a watt if you insist on using a very low crossover.
3) All drivers have gobs of distortion at their low ends. A 1" compression driver pushed to 500hz will probably approach 100% distortion in the bottom octave. No, I am not exaggerating.
Seriously, crossing over at 500hz, or 300hz(!!!) is just a really bad idea with a 1" compression driver. The main reason the diaphragm doesn't explode is that compression drivers are built to take a lot of abuse. But it's not going to sound good with that low a xover.
As for the Synergy vs Unity thing, the main differences are in the crossover and the configuration of the midrange taps. And the midrange taps in a Unity and a Synergy are basically in the same spot in the horn, it's the SHAPE that's different.
Can I use a synergy for home? like with a tapped horn, did question this before but is time ago, I want to use then a synergy with two mids, two basmids, or maybe it is possible to get 90 Hz 20 khz with such horn.
I did see these exists, the back of the basmid is a tuned pipe to the horn mouth so I did see to get it lower?.
Beyma has a couple nice drivers with a qts of 0.22 that is nice, when close back of speaker afcourse it is not so very important, I go buy some and cloes the back and measure then.
I did see these exists, the back of the basmid is a tuned pipe to the horn mouth so I did see to get it lower?.
Beyma has a couple nice drivers with a qts of 0.22 that is nice, when close back of speaker afcourse it is not so very important, I go buy some and cloes the back and measure then.
If I can fit one in my car you can definitely fit one in your home
I have a thread titled "Monster Massive" detailing a Synergy Horn that's built into a bar stool. That project has been on hold as I've been busy with *another* Synergy horn for my car, detailed in the thread 'Edge of no Control.' The former project uses a Pyle horn, the latter project uses a Pyle PH-612, which is a knock off of the JBL PT waveguide.
Check 'em out!
I'll (hopefully) be demoing the car in Riverside on Saturday.
As for the size question, basically it depends on where they are going. A Lambda Unity horn, like the first pic above, controls directivity down to about 844hz. A Synergy SH-50 controls it down to about one half octave deeper, 563hz. But I always jam my projects into a corner, which is why I can get away with such small waveguides. And note that directivity and loading are different; while the Lambda only controls directivity down to 844hz, the midrange drivers are fully loaded down to their F3 of about 350hz.
I have a thread titled "Monster Massive" detailing a Synergy Horn that's built into a bar stool. That project has been on hold as I've been busy with *another* Synergy horn for my car, detailed in the thread 'Edge of no Control.' The former project uses a Pyle horn, the latter project uses a Pyle PH-612, which is a knock off of the JBL PT waveguide.
Check 'em out!
I'll (hopefully) be demoing the car in Riverside on Saturday.
As for the size question, basically it depends on where they are going. A Lambda Unity horn, like the first pic above, controls directivity down to about 844hz. A Synergy SH-50 controls it down to about one half octave deeper, 563hz. But I always jam my projects into a corner, which is why I can get away with such small waveguides. And note that directivity and loading are different; while the Lambda only controls directivity down to 844hz, the midrange drivers are fully loaded down to their F3 of about 350hz.
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Hmm I am busy with a car, headgasked and gearbox change so a other work on that mobile home, what it is.
Thanks for the tip, I go looking there. I have here some sims with a beyma 3 inch, not expensive and do good, but I now I have first close the back of it measure and then input that data in hornresp for real sim.
regards
kees
Thanks for the tip, I go looking there. I have here some sims with a beyma 3 inch, not expensive and do good, but I now I have first close the back of it measure and then input that data in hornresp for real sim.
regards
kees
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Hi
Yes i did see that somewhere there was a cullpritt.
ButI do learn this way the good things, I need to studie the sim better with hornresp and synergy horn.
Or maybe a nano mid? ;-)
But serious, nowq i see why you guys have so much problems with reach of mid to high.
I change the 1.90 cm to 6 cm and see 1.800 Khz is just usable, with 4 cm I get to plus minus 2 khz or some higher.
Yes i did see that somewhere there was a cullpritt.
ButI do learn this way the good things, I need to studie the sim better with hornresp and synergy horn.
Or maybe a nano mid? ;-)
But serious, nowq i see why you guys have so much problems with reach of mid to high.
I change the 1.90 cm to 6 cm and see 1.800 Khz is just usable, with 4 cm I get to plus minus 2 khz or some higher.
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I stopped reading this thread for awhile so now I'm out of sync. But I was hoping that at some point, a DIY design would emerge based on available drivers and suitable for home use. Something square shaped we can build ourselves. Did I miss that somewhere in the last many pages of this thread, or is has everyone gone off in their own directions ?
There's about 5-10 now
The tricky part is that some require drivers that aren't readily available
IMHO, Bill Waslo's is probably the one that's easiest to put together at the moment. Having said that, the midbasses are no longer available.
If I'm not mistaken, the other designs don't have a documented crossover.
Another option would be to simply build the Lambda Unity horn. It's all documented at William Cowan's site. I have the Lambda mids and the Pyle PDMR5 is close enough that you could probably just drop it in.
I have some old phillips speakers, two of them for the bass-mid.
I think it looks good but I also thing I miss something, I do need als VTC/ATC for the sim?
The graph itselfs looks good, alost perfect for this 1970 AD8066 bas woofer of 50 watts, I do use two of them. The dome idea is ice, maybe a low FS dome mid speaker? these are lying around with FS of 400 hz.
I think it looks good but I also thing I miss something, I do need als VTC/ATC for the sim?
The graph itselfs looks good, alost perfect for this 1970 AD8066 bas woofer of 50 watts, I do use two of them. The dome idea is ice, maybe a low FS dome mid speaker? these are lying around with FS of 400 hz.
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I mean the dome mids not tweeters because these compression drivers.
I do simulate synergy this moment, because it is raining here, that is netherlands euhh. Oke do I have to let S3-S4-S5 the same for all bands? like bass-high mid?
only S1 and S2 changes with speaker, I go search for horn resp inputs there are I think a lot of it.
I see just that the compression driver section has not offset driver in hornresp, the bass and mid do, this because the tweeter is on top? this way I see
that things get better.
Have a nice day/night.
kees
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Dome mids *will* work, but cone mids generally have higher output.
Then again, the output level of the midranges generally isn't an issue on a Synergy horn. That's why I can get away with 2" or even 1/2" midranges; it's really easy to get huge levels of output in the midrange because there are so many mids. This is also one of the reason that JLH has had good luck with inexpensive cone tweeters used as mids. A single driver won't get very loud, but four sure will.
Then again, the output level of the midranges generally isn't an issue on a Synergy horn. That's why I can get away with 2" or even 1/2" midranges; it's really easy to get huge levels of output in the midrange because there are so many mids. This is also one of the reason that JLH has had good luck with inexpensive cone tweeters used as mids. A single driver won't get very loud, but four sure will.
Those quarter sized CBT array speakers don't work worth a darn on a Synergy horn either. Their parameters are all wrong for the application.
Do you have seen this?
Sinergy Horn , a design idea - Audio Voice Acoustics
very nice indeed, here a ported sub is interesting for bass, I did see that patric has something like that, then I need only mid high synery horn, I have sim a ML-TL who do have efficienty 95dB watt, max 125 dB.
regards
Sinergy Horn , a design idea - Audio Voice Acoustics
very nice indeed, here a ported sub is interesting for bass, I did see that patric has something like that, then I need only mid high synery horn, I have sim a ML-TL who do have efficienty 95dB watt, max 125 dB.
regards