Hmmmm... the difference in response sensitivity already favors the WKeNabls (and WKeN2 is closer to WKeN1 than to WK2, for fair control). I was expecting audible differences not shown in frequency response (as I'm familiar with the effect of non-eNabl cone conditioning).
May be gmad suggestion is doable?
I don't have a headphone right now but I have had a brief listen through laptop's speaker to A, B and reference, and I thought the result was unique...
May be if the FR were made equal (or random) we can actually hear the difference? For example, we can do non-eNabl conditioning to improve sensitivity of the "pristine" driver.
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One major difference with this latest round is that once the sound clip leaves the DAC, it's all analog. Source material/DAC/Linear class AB amp with linear PSU/Passive crossover/Driver. So I avoided EQ of any sort. No DSP this time for doing the manipulations you suggest. I would have to rewire as active DSP dual amps to do what you say.
Passive XO with 10F/8424 in flat baffle
I made a new version of the XO using a bipolar electrolytic 50uF cap bypassed with 10uF MKT cap and 2.2uF MKP cap, and 1% metal thin film 2w resistors paralled for 4w rating. The XO was connected to my 10F/RS225 FAST boxes rather than the external Dagger. In order to get the drivers in phase I moved the mic on axis with the woofer and this put about a 3in delay between the tweeter and woofer. Because of this, the 10F is meausured at an approximate 30deg off-axis.
Here is a photo of the SPL and phase:
Here is a photo of the speaker with XO sitting on top. You can see how this is much smaller than the previous one:
The amp just received dual CRCLC power supply (linear at 45v rails). When listening in stereo, the separate PSU's really open up the soundstage.
Here is measured Phase and SPL:
Here is measured Distortion:
Here is the Measured Step and Impulse:
Sound clips attached. Change .asc to .mp3 to listen.
I made a new version of the XO using a bipolar electrolytic 50uF cap bypassed with 10uF MKT cap and 2.2uF MKP cap, and 1% metal thin film 2w resistors paralled for 4w rating. The XO was connected to my 10F/RS225 FAST boxes rather than the external Dagger. In order to get the drivers in phase I moved the mic on axis with the woofer and this put about a 3in delay between the tweeter and woofer. Because of this, the 10F is meausured at an approximate 30deg off-axis.
Here is a photo of the SPL and phase:
Here is a photo of the speaker with XO sitting on top. You can see how this is much smaller than the previous one:
The amp just received dual CRCLC power supply (linear at 45v rails). When listening in stereo, the separate PSU's really open up the soundstage.
Here is measured Phase and SPL:
Here is measured Distortion:
Here is the Measured Step and Impulse:
Sound clips attached. Change .asc to .mp3 to listen.
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I wanted to do this test on my arrays but I kept delaying the vote time and again because I was busy with all kinds of stuff. So I decided to run the test with headphones instead. I'll add a brief note of my preference, the vote I made can probably be easily analyzed 😀.
I do hope we get more votes in, don't delay your vote like I did.
Forgot to add in the txt, I used German Maestro 8.35D and the headphone amp build into my Asus Xonar Essence ST. As it doesn't put my vote or preference at risk I figured to add it here.
I do hope we get more votes in, don't delay your vote like I did.
Forgot to add in the txt, I used German Maestro 8.35D and the headphone amp build into my Asus Xonar Essence ST. As it doesn't put my vote or preference at risk I figured to add it here.
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I listened. I sort of played. 🙂
Signal quality seems to have improved a bit from previous tests. Comments attached below. (don't look if you didn't vote yet 😉)
Signal quality seems to have improved a bit from previous tests. Comments attached below. (don't look if you didn't vote yet 😉)
Thanks for playing GregB.
I agree signal quality is up and largely result of the very nice class AB amplifier, 1st order flat phase XO, no DSP, and recording using the measurement mic at same spot at frequency response measurement.
Hence, impetus for me to build my next reference passive 3-way transient perfect speaker (Dayton RS28F-4, Visaton B80 or SS 10F/8424 in waveguide, Dayton RS180P-8 x 2?)
I agree signal quality is up and largely result of the very nice class AB amplifier, 1st order flat phase XO, no DSP, and recording using the measurement mic at same spot at frequency response measurement.
Hence, impetus for me to build my next reference passive 3-way transient perfect speaker (Dayton RS28F-4, Visaton B80 or SS 10F/8424 in waveguide, Dayton RS180P-8 x 2?)
No not yet. Still formulating approach and running simulations. But some initial ideas are coming out in this thread discussing the B&O "Hole Filler" xo thread.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/88135-filler-driver-ala-b-o-3.html#post4376492
Basically make a 2 way with 2nd order XO and set both drivers +ve polarity to get cancellation dip at XO. Now take a very wide bandwidth mid (a full range) and set it to have a 1st order band pass at same XO frequency and also +ve polarity. It then "fills in the hole" at the XO. The math works out perfectly to be a flat phase throughout the passband.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/88135-filler-driver-ala-b-o-3.html#post4376492
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/88135-filler-driver-ala-b-o-3.html#post4376492
Basically make a 2 way with 2nd order XO and set both drivers +ve polarity to get cancellation dip at XO. Now take a very wide bandwidth mid (a full range) and set it to have a 1st order band pass at same XO frequency and also +ve polarity. It then "fills in the hole" at the XO. The math works out perfectly to be a flat phase throughout the passband.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/88135-filler-driver-ala-b-o-3.html#post4376492
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Interesting, I'll have to get caught up on that thread. I'm looking forward to seeing your sims etc on the new idea as well.
Just voted, but the conclusion is questionable because I listened to the music from 3x3x3 inch plastic cube PC speaker (and for a few minutes only).
This test is strange. May be eNable is suitable for drivers with unacceptable distortion? One clip is so far from the reference but surprisingly the one closer to the reference is NOT easy on ears... (I think people should believe in breaking-in or burning-in?)
So on my terrible PC system I have to prefer the one "farther" from the reference. In better systems tho, I might prefer the other one. Because in a good system, the electronics (and speaker to listen to the recording) may contribute little to distortion so the final distortion may fall below threshold (acceptance) level.
This test is strange. May be eNable is suitable for drivers with unacceptable distortion? One clip is so far from the reference but surprisingly the one closer to the reference is NOT easy on ears... (I think people should believe in breaking-in or burning-in?)
So on my terrible PC system I have to prefer the one "farther" from the reference. In better systems tho, I might prefer the other one. Because in a good system, the electronics (and speaker to listen to the recording) may contribute little to distortion so the final distortion may fall below threshold (acceptance) level.
Why not add a text file to name the speakers you were describing Jay, prior to the close down of this poll? You're talking in riddles here if you don't name them, but to keep it hidden just add it in a text file. 🙂
Interesting choice Jay. Golden ears has spoken. 🙂
What I don't get is why someone like you doesn't have a decent set of self made reference speakers. I know you have great amps. What do you drive with your amps that now has you relegated to listening to crappy 3in PC speakers?
There must at least be a nice 2 way bookshelf with a dome tweeter and a 7in mid bass lurking in your pile of equipment?
What I don't get is why someone like you doesn't have a decent set of self made reference speakers. I know you have great amps. What do you drive with your amps that now has you relegated to listening to crappy 3in PC speakers?
There must at least be a nice 2 way bookshelf with a dome tweeter and a 7in mid bass lurking in your pile of equipment?
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The 3in speaker and the PC is at the office (not mine).
I have many speakers and amps. Mostly they are unused for so many years. What I'm listening is usually new design (prototype). I don't use unreliable amp for speaker testing, and I don't use good speaker for amp testing either.
The speaker design process is in a dedicated room. The amplifier soldering station is in another room. The computer is in another room. There is no comfortable space for moving my laptop to either speaker or amp rooms.
But the real problem is my computers (we're talking about downloaded MP3 here)...
Two desktops were suddenly dead (the power supply) after being unused for a long time and even tho I have 5 extra spare power supply modules I'm reluctant to change it (dusty 😀).
One laptop fell down from a refrigerator. I have fixed it but the hard disk was dead. I have spare hard disks but installing is a tedious work 😀
My main laptop (where design tools were installed including Foobar) was off around 6 months ago. The regulator was blown because it had never been shut off for may be a year. I cut the regulator connector (it's an uncommon one) to connect/solder it to my many spare laptop regulators but the cables were more than 2-sprong (Dell's) so I paused there. Now I lost that connector 😀
Now this is the only laptop I'm using and I'm running out of excuses 🙁
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