Coax on OB with bass support sounds like a good plan. Eventually, I expect to build a system like this once I've wrapped my head around the crossover (which I'd like to keep simple as adason noted could be done).
>>> they'll never achieve the kind of realism than can fool your cat.
>>> they'll never achieve the kind of realism than can fool your cat.
Attachments
Last edited:
I'm not quite sure about correct time alignment, but many coaxials have quite graceful phase behaviors and sometimes can make do with surprisingly simple crossovers. Then again, not all do, with the BMS 12C362 I had phase issues.
That said, I'd like to see a loudspeaker with no phase shift over the audio band... Take a fullrange driver with a whizzer cone (= mechanical crossover) and I'm quite sure the phase will be far from perfect even there.
For me that B&C 12-inch was probably the most sensible and successful compromise between performance and simplicity I've heard in a long time. The 15-inchers I have aren't as finished when it comes to voicing the crossover (currently slightly too bright, on the edge of aggressive), but basically they just give a little more of the same. And a deeper low end extension. But they're quite large in comparison; 180 vs 55 liters...
That said, I'd like to see a loudspeaker with no phase shift over the audio band... Take a fullrange driver with a whizzer cone (= mechanical crossover) and I'm quite sure the phase will be far from perfect even there.
For me that B&C 12-inch was probably the most sensible and successful compromise between performance and simplicity I've heard in a long time. The 15-inchers I have aren't as finished when it comes to voicing the crossover (currently slightly too bright, on the edge of aggressive), but basically they just give a little more of the same. And a deeper low end extension. But they're quite large in comparison; 180 vs 55 liters...
The ultimate classical music speaker system for me would be a good 6" full range (fostex or maybe lowther) in a ~250hz front horn, a pair of fancy horn supertweeters rolled in quite high, and a pair of GPA 15" woofers in corner loaded MLTL tuned low for bass and low mids. The FR would get some magic sauce and probably a whizzerectomy if needed.
Short of that, my bare bones Alpair 10.3m in the suggested reflex boxes really do quite well on classical for not much trouble or expense. They have quite a lot of dynamic range.
Short of that, my bare bones Alpair 10.3m in the suggested reflex boxes really do quite well on classical for not much trouble or expense. They have quite a lot of dynamic range.
classic, tubes, step response, Impedanz
Hello,
one of my last project were the KANGLING,
double horn, two 6"5 driver, best ever seen Impedanzplot
superb for Tube amps,
compair it to all other solutions,
and for classic take a look of the Rms of the driver, find one below 1,
B200 has 0,4, W8-1772 ~1,6!
i sold the prototyp to a classic listener, he is lucky as can be.
take view
Hello,
one of my last project were the KANGLING,
double horn, two 6"5 driver, best ever seen Impedanzplot
superb for Tube amps,
compair it to all other solutions,
and for classic take a look of the Rms of the driver, find one below 1,
B200 has 0,4, W8-1772 ~1,6!
i sold the prototyp to a classic listener, he is lucky as can be.
take view
Attachments
Since the OP is a self proclaimed "noob", I think purposeful simplicity would be a virtue here. So a capable 2-way or a good fullrange might be the best choice. And a sealed or a bass reflex box, again for simplicity's sake. This way chances of success are higher.
If I had to suggest a fullrange I'd probably go with an 8-inch driver, depending on where the compromises are less buggering to the person actually having to listen to the end result. Rule of thumb: smaller driver, better higher end, no bass, bigger driver, better bass, narrower listening window and lousy to mediocre treble.
Of course the OP has to sift through everyones personal preferences. I've found my long lost home with PA-coaxes; properly implemented they have coherence, dynamics, immediacy, and a sense of ease that comes from their sheer dynamic capacity. And of course, the directivity behaviour gives a more relaxed listening spot. I listen to varying genres from classical to black metal, so I also need a very universal speaker. Though, actually black metal or metal music in general and classical music place some very similar requirements on ones system. Someone else might have completely different priorities and preferences.
If I had to suggest a fullrange I'd probably go with an 8-inch driver, depending on where the compromises are less buggering to the person actually having to listen to the end result. Rule of thumb: smaller driver, better higher end, no bass, bigger driver, better bass, narrower listening window and lousy to mediocre treble.
Of course the OP has to sift through everyones personal preferences. I've found my long lost home with PA-coaxes; properly implemented they have coherence, dynamics, immediacy, and a sense of ease that comes from their sheer dynamic capacity. And of course, the directivity behaviour gives a more relaxed listening spot. I listen to varying genres from classical to black metal, so I also need a very universal speaker. Though, actually black metal or metal music in general and classical music place some very similar requirements on ones system. Someone else might have completely different priorities and preferences.
I've done a couple of variations on that theme. I actually prefer the simpler "big coax in a BR box"-approach sonically.
I also tried coax + bass on OB, but no success. It was more like an experimental setup, so if one do it seriously, the story might be different.
Thank you all.
I am now thinking of a coax speaker like the B&C12 or smaller but i am afraid of being disapointed in the lower end. maybe a woofer for the job. But don't really know how to implement that. I think this is the best choice for me. Because i can build the coax now and in the future add a woofer for the lower end. In the process i will learn my way into the Diy speaker.
-subwoofer/woofer advice needed
thank you
I am now thinking of a coax speaker like the B&C12 or smaller but i am afraid of being disapointed in the lower end. maybe a woofer for the job. But don't really know how to implement that. I think this is the best choice for me. Because i can build the coax now and in the future add a woofer for the lower end. In the process i will learn my way into the Diy speaker.
-subwoofer/woofer advice needed
thank you
Smaller than 12" kind of ensures you'll be disappointed with the lower end of the spectrum. Most PA-drivers aren't made for the lowest end of extensions. Some "hi-fi" drivers go lower at smaller sizes, but they have nowhere near the dynamic capabilities PA-drivers have.
The 2-way I mentioned with the B&C 12FCX76 is a rather sensible choice. It's a simple solution to cover most of the spectrum. It isn't perfect, and the 15-inch version does offer some advantages, if you're willing to give them some extra space.
I had an altec 604e with a 1.5k xover for a while and it really made me miss my vott's. Bring that compression horn in at 500hz and wow. It's a huge speaker though that needs lots of tweaking and subwoofer(s). Great Plains Audio still makes a version of the 604.
You mean like an econowave? Lots of people love em but I've never heard one myself except on youtube. Lots of people love the 604 also but they just weren't for me.
Then good, that would be an excellent option for OP, a 15" coax with a tested xover. I personally would not disregard the "main range/mid range" + woofer 3way type for a better performance in the vocal range, to free the LF, and as a first main speaker pair. The coax with less phase issues and a good bass (15") and the multi(3)way with better "mid()" but more "xover work". Difficult choice.
Why don't more coax manufacturers provide a crossover as an option? Great Plains does. I agree with Inductor. 1200 or 1500 is too high for a 15" or maybe even a 12" IMO. In my limited experience the mid range just does not sound good to me. Wouldn't do a coax again. All kinds of opinions though!
I was working on a FAST coax at one point. I should resurrect it - a small baffle with a 2.5in full range driver mounted above the main cone - a 12in high sensitivity pro audio coax driver. Plus a suitable 400Hz XO. The shape of the baffle cannot be round as Infoubd out the hard way (huge diffraction dips). Manufacturers should make this commercially I bet there would be a market.
A coax plus a 2.5 fr? Not sure I understand. Would the coax be bass and treble with the fr mid's? Infoubd = I found?
Yes, i think i made my mind into the 15" coaxial option. i will message Adolf for a little guidance. But it's a final decision. Thank you all. I will post the progress in another thread, later.
Use a coax to provide the bass woofer and mount a 2.5in full range and small baffle onto the "horn" duct as a support structure. I am throwing away the coax's compression driver horn ability and using it more as a means to support the full range and a place for wiring to go through.
Kind of like a Geithain but without the mounts to the woofer bezel - all supported from a stem from CD horn tube. There is a good reason that oblong baffle is there as I found out the hard way without one...
Here is a beautiful and great sounding speaker, the Geithain RL 901k:
http://www.me-geithain.de/index.php/en/studio/products/active-loudspeaker/rl901k
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Last edited:
Ok, after all, it's your own funeral as they say. But be forewarned that the crossover is not yet quite complete, and I've a few projects I have to publish before I'll have time again to fiddle with it.
Taking that into account I'd still recommend considering the 12" version, which is more sensible in size and as such the cabinet is easier to make. Also it is more complete, and won't leave that much to be desired compared to its larger brother. The difference in low end extension is maybe half an octave. Although the smaller one does exhibit a steeper dropoff in bass. It basically goes to 50Hz and that's about it, but that is perfectly sufficient for most music. Having had a chance to listen to these two side by side I would have been perfectly happy if I had to live with the smaller 12" version.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.