OT is Off Topic.
And you lads are letting us down. No posts in this thread for over 24 hours? Tsk, tsk!
And you lads are letting us down. No posts in this thread for over 24 hours? Tsk, tsk!
Well, Pano, I am still chewing on my latest insight that a piece of wire is just a perfect amplifier without gain.
Well, ok Pano, I have some claims to make. Totally anecdotal. Absolutely my personal opinion.
However, considering that they are made with speakers that have a near perfect "coherence" of information structure and a lack of "echo" resonance down at the 4us level, viewed with wavelet analysis and are at least 40 to 50 db further down in this behavior than typical speakers.
And considering that my "intuitive tastes" were developed while playing upright Tuba in orchestra from age 8 to 22.
I think I am comfortable in saying that the only speaker cables that don't impact my "intuitive tastes" in musical values are made with Type 2 Litz wire. Made from individually insulated strands of #40 gauge wire made in the US for transformer manufacture, comprised of 280 strands and slipped in a woven cotton XXL shoelace, with periodic applications of shrink tubing (deliberately kept to poly-olefin only) down the length of the cable. The audible difference between 3 meters of this stuff and 27 meters of this stuff is a slight phase shift above 10kHz. The phase shift is slight enough to not interfere in piano note internal structure and to recede percussive brush work a few inches in the sound field. The audible difference between 12 inches and 3 meters is inaudible to my 15kHz limited hearing.
One of the posters on this thread has claimed to me that interconnects made for him from 140 strands of this material are indistinguishable from his serious money favorite interconnects, even with $1.59 for four Radio Shack RCA connectors, for end pieces. Chosen for minimum metal and molded polypropylene externals, one of my other favorite audio acceptable plastics, in tiny amounts.
With the steep proximity rejection of the Type two Litz I am not in any way concerned about RF for either unshielded speaker cables or interconnect cables. The only way to get 60 Hz impressed on them is to drape them over the core of an unshielded E/I power transformer. Admittedly, at that point, there is a problem, but I view doing this as one of SY's "pathological" choices and easily avoided.
No other wire configuration has provided me with these benefits and to date I have tried or borrowed everything pointed to on this and the previous popcorn ingestion cable thread, of awesome extent.
Just thought I would say....
Bud
However, considering that they are made with speakers that have a near perfect "coherence" of information structure and a lack of "echo" resonance down at the 4us level, viewed with wavelet analysis and are at least 40 to 50 db further down in this behavior than typical speakers.
And considering that my "intuitive tastes" were developed while playing upright Tuba in orchestra from age 8 to 22.
I think I am comfortable in saying that the only speaker cables that don't impact my "intuitive tastes" in musical values are made with Type 2 Litz wire. Made from individually insulated strands of #40 gauge wire made in the US for transformer manufacture, comprised of 280 strands and slipped in a woven cotton XXL shoelace, with periodic applications of shrink tubing (deliberately kept to poly-olefin only) down the length of the cable. The audible difference between 3 meters of this stuff and 27 meters of this stuff is a slight phase shift above 10kHz. The phase shift is slight enough to not interfere in piano note internal structure and to recede percussive brush work a few inches in the sound field. The audible difference between 12 inches and 3 meters is inaudible to my 15kHz limited hearing.
One of the posters on this thread has claimed to me that interconnects made for him from 140 strands of this material are indistinguishable from his serious money favorite interconnects, even with $1.59 for four Radio Shack RCA connectors, for end pieces. Chosen for minimum metal and molded polypropylene externals, one of my other favorite audio acceptable plastics, in tiny amounts.
With the steep proximity rejection of the Type two Litz I am not in any way concerned about RF for either unshielded speaker cables or interconnect cables. The only way to get 60 Hz impressed on them is to drape them over the core of an unshielded E/I power transformer. Admittedly, at that point, there is a problem, but I view doing this as one of SY's "pathological" choices and easily avoided.
No other wire configuration has provided me with these benefits and to date I have tried or borrowed everything pointed to on this and the previous popcorn ingestion cable thread, of awesome extent.
Just thought I would say....
Bud
Do you mean plots like this? Enable Tests
Considering the total DNR is only 40db and the time scale is in ms could you give me a link for the interpretation? Sorry if I missed it.
You didn't miss it Scott, I just am very poor at on screen editing. 4 ms it is and while there is some evidence to support the downward dynamics claim, it is still anecdotal, not enough data to convince. A sighted A : B comparison could leave you distressed, as the change isn't subtle, after 3 or 4 comparison periods. Our local audio club asked for a demonstration recently. If you are interested in an enthusiastic report I can post a link.
Bud
Bud
That's fine I'm sure I'll get a chance to listen for myself sometime. BTW I have no problem with painting dots on my drivers, seems harmless though I wouldn't do it to anything irreplacable.
I have set up a listening test. I personally believe that a run of 3m loudspeaker cable does not act as a transmission line in the audible range. What it could do is pick up RF or bring the amp into stability problems. I am using a ribbon cable from silver foil not much different then the Goerz but a bit less extreme. It it made by Solid Core Audio in Germany. There you find a description. It measures 0.5uH and 5nF for 3m so it is a 10 Ohm cable in the RF region. I build a "far end" Zobel for use at the speaker terminals from a 0.15uF cap and a 10 Ohm resistor. It can be switched in and out quite fast. I do not have much trouble with RF ingress. I life on the county side and my listening room is in the souterrain of a very well build house, mostly from concrete and rather thick brick. When i have radio ingress ( it sometimes happens when i use a non compensated sensitive MC stage ) i hear a french lady talking for hours, or an english man that talked not so much and slower or classical opera music very faint but clear in the back round. Strange. With CD that never happens. What i can hear is when the light is switched on and off or when somebody is using a cell phone in my listening room. Then cracking noises are heard when listening to vinyl if the MC pre-pre is too fast.This is a good test to make my phono stages fail safe. My lab is in the room next to it. There is a computer and a washing machine but non of their noises make it into my system except acoustically. I supply my system from a separate return of the high power box anyway.
So lets see if i can hear a change.
So lets see if i can hear a change.
It does so without regard to your belief..😉
As Scott also demonstrated (which I've maintained all along), is that it can be modelled as lumped elements with only a bit of error. But the lumped elements do not allow understanding..
Your numbers for L and C are both too high, as the LC product is an order of magnitude too high. I suspect those values are for a 10 meter length.
The only alternative, is your cable has aluminum electrolyte as an insulator..
cheers, jn
Sure, sorry i measured yesterday and did not control today. I think you are right i will repeat that. What i belief does not matter,you are right again. I hope i am not to pre conditioned now to do a valuable test.
I measured again but found that i can not measure the inductance with enough precision with the equipment i have at hand at home. I will measure the cable again on my precision bridge in the other lab or ask the designer. I sill measure a bit under 5nF though.
Thanks for putting this up. I must be more careful the next time. Still i am planning to set up that experiment.
Thanks for putting this up. I must be more careful the next time. Still i am planning to set up that experiment.
Hi,
No idea. In what way do you feel your Vacuum Cleaner does not sound right? 😀
Ciao T
No idea. In what way do you feel your Vacuum Cleaner does not sound right? 😀
Ciao T
I have now the correct parameters. 0.5nF/ftt and 10nH/ftt so this is an approximate 4Ohm
cable. I have now fitted 3.9Ohm and 0.15uF. I have connected the cap to the negative side if that matters or not.
cable. I have now fitted 3.9Ohm and 0.15uF. I have connected the cap to the negative side if that matters or not.
I also find inductance measurement to be rather "testy".
Setup the meter and cable, tape the meter and wire to a piece of plywood or something non conductive.
Short the other end.
With the meter stable, short the cable at the meter to cable connection without moving the cables. This is the meter offset.
Release the short...this is the measurement of the combo... subtract the two to arrive at the cable value.
I've used this to measure accurately at the quarter nH level (250 picohenry), but my meter had an autozero function to internally remove the setup error.
Cheers, jn
Excellent. Those look much better, even without doing the math.
I made a 1/2 inch wide copper foil stripline with about 2 mils of kapton insulation between to get roughly the same results..I needed a stripline that actually worked in room air, through a warm to cold transition piece I designed, and into liquid helium at the same time, not just "cryoed"..
Cheers, jn
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It does not sound at all anymore, but power cord from it sounds nice with my speakers... Vacuum impregnated. However, I did not have an idea to run some time a refrigerator through it, to get it cryo-treated, may be it would sound even better...
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