speaker cable myths and facts

[Esperado]

Examine the risetime at the load.

Please: scales.
What are the rise times of your original signal, what are the rise times with the different mountings you propose.
Or, if you prefer, what will be the different levels with a sinus wave at 40kz ?

And, (because i love bad jokes), can-you make the same measurements with your speakers instead of resistive dummy loads, witch are not good in producing good sound.

 

[Scottmoose]

460+ posts, nearly 14,000 views to date. On a thread about wire. This is getting out of hand. Guys, in the rush to debate rise times, TL theory & the ilk, I'm getting the distinct feeling something has been forgotten here. It's wire. There is more to life.

For example, this is Zoe Tapper, a rather talented young British actress. Using microbes as your scale of reference, how small would you feel if she caught you fretting over speaker wire?

 

[Esperado]

Bug on the forum ?

 

[thetubeguy1954]

460+ posts, nearly 14,000 views to date. On a thread about wire. This is getting out of hand. Guys, in the rush to debate rise times, TL theory & the ilk, I'm getting the distinct feeling something has been forgotten here. It's wire. There is more to life.

For example, this is Zoe Tapper, a rather talented young British actress. Using microbes as your scale of reference, how small would you feel if she caught you fretting over speaker wire?

Scott,

If you could get Ms Tapper to come visit me here in Orlando, Fla for an evening of dinner and drinks and whatever else might come to pass. I believe the beautiful Ms. Zoe just might get me to admit discussing wires is a waste of time ---at least until she left that is....



Wires? What wires? Where? Why are we still talking about wires? Why am I even wasting my time talking to you guys? Zoey, are you still here baby? Oh yeah, you are? Come here and crawl back onto my lap. I have a wire I want to show you......

Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)

 

[Pano]

460+ posts, nearly 14,000 views to date. On a thread about wire. This is getting out of hand.

You know Scott, I said pretty much the same thing 3 years ago in another long cable thread. Caught hell for saying it. We'll never keep the guys from debating wires, it's an audio soap opera. A soap opera with some actual info thrown in from time to time, just to keep it spicy.

 

[Esperado]

460+ posts, nearly 14,000 views to date

Man you are unfair. Just at the time we where on the point to know the big secret about God/Wires : how many pair did we have to twist together to get a 6 ohms transmission line.
And, if god exists, did it will make a difference, when we will listen to "Stairway to heaven" (Led Zep).
14 000 people waiting for this revelation cannot be wrong.

(To be serious, i had learned here some stuff about hf witch are a little away from my domain, but interesting. Forums with such a density of expertises are not so numerous. Just it is a pity some prefer to argue than to collaborate in debug)

 

[scott wurcer]

Quoth the raven, nevermore.

 

[john curl]

I had a prettier British girlfriend than her, in my time. My girlfriend was a principal in the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra at the time. First woman principal in this orchestra. I was then with The Institute of Advanced Musical Studies or IHEM (Fr. initials) and I was just as crazy as I am today. We spent a vacation touring Switzerland together. Of course, I was younger then. This goes to show that 'crazy ideas' does not add in to the sum of a love affair.

 

[magnoman]

Quoth the raven, nevermore.

Darkness there, and nothing more

 

[Esperado]

Yeah, men, i found the place.
FadelArt - Accueil

Everything in here. Ultimates cables with 0 distortions and perfect transmission of "musical signals" (you can even listen on their web site how it is so fluid and light and warm and precise and natural) made by a musician scientist who had dedicated his life on the question of wires for music.

- They explain the technology with complicates numerous formulas. It is "Scientific".
- But, remember, science is nothing if it is not correlated with fine art of listening.
- They are calculated as conduction lines. With an ideal impedance of 300 ohms.
- They use Litz wires (of course).
- They have found a new isolating material 'Carbonyl Iron" with a constant magnetic repartition and high Tesla to satisfy the "Heaveside" condition (don't you know the Heaveside laws ?)
- This material do not have the terrific "Memory effect". (Your ACDC album will not remember the J.S. Bach previous listening).
- The conductive material use special long granularity for a fluid reproduction (it is in accordance with the rythm of the music). Sulfurium silver made with sevelal cooking sessions.
- They are totaly rigid to stop the IM distortion.
- They are white, because everybody had noticed that this color is more neutral for the music..
- They threat + and - signals in a perfect symmetrical way.
- They are perfectly neutral (Are-they manufactured in Swizerland ?), and you will feel water sounds absolutely "liquid" and silences very much silenced.
- Of course, you will have to use the same technology for all the cables of your system, because coherence is very important with music.
- Of course, as habit, you will need one month of Lapping before they reveal their perfect neutrality.
- You can have this cables for one week of testings for free, before to pay (honest):
Sector cables: 1413,00€/m
Hp cables: 3985,00€/m
Numeric cables: 953,00€/m
Rca : 763,00€/m with symetrisation set of 1130,00€

You can close this thread. No more mysteries in cables. Forget your impedances, selfs, caps blablas (That's why they refuse to publish such rubbish, insanes datas)

Ps: They sells little pieces of special wood based on natural wood that you put under your enclosures to make they sound natural for: 534€. They explain clearly why others similar feet does-not work.

Have a nice day.

A rapid calculation makes my cabling a little more than 40 000 euros. (plus 534€) I will need your help.

 

[heinz1964]

What cable Do you use then?

Hello

After all of this discusion about cable and science, what is the result?

Or should I ask what cable are people actually using for there loudspeakers?

I have been searching for a cable about 1,5 mm2 or 17 AWG with teflon/FEP insulation at an affordable price but can not find any.

Any suggestions

Best regards

Uwe

 

[Bill poster]

Hello

After all of this discusion about cable and science, what is the result?

Or should I ask what cable are people actually using for there loudspeakers?

I have been searching for a cable about 1,5 mm2 or 17 AWG with teflon/FEP insulation at an affordable price but can not find any.

Any suggestions

Best regards

Uwe

97% of the discussion has gone over my head, but the more copper the better
ie. if you can, go for something like 12 AWG Van Damme (very good value)
There seems to be a gap in the market for a 10/12 gauge 'flat' cable me thinks

 

[SY]

Or should I ask what cable are people actually using for there loudspeakers?

12AWG zip, about 3 meters, cut from orange Home Depot outdoor extension cords. No dreaded RF issues, no oscillation, no horrible degradation of sound. Cost under $10.

True, I'm not trying to drive them with 60MHz signals, these are for connecting audio amplifiers to loudspeakers.

 

[Burnedfingers]

12ga commercial speaker wiring is what I use. Sorry, don't buy into the high dollar speaker wire hype. I've heard it all where I work. Some go for the most expensive because the more it cost the better it is right?

 

[SY]

I think that it's not necessarily that it's expensive, but rather that it has a story. That's part of the "entertainment factor."

 

[Esperado]

Any suggestions

So, forget about teflon. What the hell with teflon ? Better concentrate on the rigidity and size of the insulation between the two wires and value for money, omho. and forget about any magic.
12 AWG is ok, the larger, the better for bass response.
On my side, i use an electrical cable for outside use with no sonic problems or questions.

 

[AndrewT]

What cable Do you use then?

..... what cable are people actually using for their loudspeakers?

Insulated copper.

 

[mp9]

all of this discusion about cable and science, what is the result?

Or should I ask what cable are people actually using for there loudspeakers?

Kimber 8TC /primary system.

Carol CAT5e Plenum /secondary system, two runs per speaker.

 

[vacuphile]

12 ga figure 8 I bought about 25 years ago. Doesn't show any wear yet.

 

[jneutron]

A coincidence, surely.

It is NOT a coincidence..




And don't call me Shirley!!!

Please: scales.
What are the rise times of your original signal, what are the rise times with the different mountings you propose.
Or, if you prefer, what will be the different levels with a sinus wave at 40kz ?

And, (because i love bad jokes), can-you make the same measurements with your speakers instead of resistive dummy loads, witch are not good in producing good sound.

Do not miss the point of this discussion.

Do not worry about sine response. Concentrate on risetime for now. Use the parametric 10% to 90%. Determine the difference between a 120 ohm cable with a 2 or 4 ohm load, and the same wire with a 50 ohm load.

Once an understanding of the magnitude of the delay is known, then one can begin to look at how that frequency dependent delay can alter the image location. The two graphs I presented, the differential IID and ITD?? Those represent the movement of the virtual image for differential shifts of those parameters. Note the levels required to move an image depthwise 20 inches?? Note for amplitude it is in tenths of a db, for delay it is in the 10 microsecond range.

Do you believe you will be successful in measuring 5 uSec delays in sines in the 500 to 5K range with a speaker as the load? Do you believe you can do so at the .1dB level? That is a difficult thing to do.

Try the described test first.

Cheers, John

ps. frequency dependent delay being caused by the wide range of speaker impedance across the audio band. remember, the load to line ratio.
pps. 10 to 90 is as good a metric as any other, like 63%...current audibility research is leaning towards zero crossings in the inner ear as the key metric for localization, but that theory may change in the future.. There is no clear theory on how this zero crossing works when a hf signal is superimposed on a larger lf signal, one theory being the gradual high passing of the cochlea as a result of shape or hair length.. The actual physiology is not so important...