Pointy G Changs
First attempt at DIY speakers .. so excuse the finish 🙂 but the wife likes them so thats good enough for me.
Just need to mount the outriggers for stability and I'm done.
Thanks to ScottMoose and all the other Spawn builders .. they sound pretty dammed good hooked up to the squeezebox and a T-amp.
First attempt at DIY speakers .. so excuse the finish 🙂 but the wife likes them so thats good enough for me.
Just need to mount the outriggers for stability and I'm done.
Thanks to ScottMoose and all the other Spawn builders .. they sound pretty dammed good hooked up to the squeezebox and a T-amp.
Attachments
holly molly how time flies by at an alarming rate... 🙂
I shelved any diy audio for the last 3 months, and have finally come through with some "loose chang" to spend ... ;-) lol
so time to buy some drivers.
now my old post here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1233394#post1233394
about getting some fe127's which I bought and build and they were not quite "enough" sound for my room, so ended upstairs.
so I need something with a little more punch.
so either fe167e's in KimChi Chang
or fe207e's in Curvy Chang
mostly I listen to classic rock, light blues, jazz with plenty of horn and drums.
I have a very old pearl drum kit I smash out some tunes on, and my kids love smashing them too, so my ears are not what you would call pristine 🙂 lol
I'm leaning towards the 207's, but looking through the forums a lot of people seem to like the 167's more so.
I gotta spend this money on building some speakers, help me decide!... maybe I'll buy a set of both drivers and build both...
I shelved any diy audio for the last 3 months, and have finally come through with some "loose chang" to spend ... ;-) lol
so time to buy some drivers.
now my old post here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1233394#post1233394
about getting some fe127's which I bought and build and they were not quite "enough" sound for my room, so ended upstairs.
so I need something with a little more punch.
so either fe167e's in KimChi Chang
or fe207e's in Curvy Chang
mostly I listen to classic rock, light blues, jazz with plenty of horn and drums.
I have a very old pearl drum kit I smash out some tunes on, and my kids love smashing them too, so my ears are not what you would call pristine 🙂 lol
I'm leaning towards the 207's, but looking through the forums a lot of people seem to like the 167's more so.
I gotta spend this money on building some speakers, help me decide!... maybe I'll buy a set of both drivers and build both...
Bigger is better. The 207 will shift more air. You want punch, go for the larger unit. Get some of Dave's phase plugs in them though -they do improve the midrange substantially. You'll also ideally need a super-tweeter -the 207 is quite a smooth unit, but it doesn't get up much past about 14KHz.
The 206 incidentally should do OK -it doesn't have the motor-power Foxtex claim, so it will work well in this box -it also gets up considerably higher than the 207. Again, the phase plugs are a worthwhile investment (even more so with this driver) as it's inherently a little brighter, and the horns here aren't quite long enough to load it sufficiently to kill that touch of top-end fierceness.
The 206 incidentally should do OK -it doesn't have the motor-power Foxtex claim, so it will work well in this box -it also gets up considerably higher than the 207. Again, the phase plugs are a worthwhile investment (even more so with this driver) as it's inherently a little brighter, and the horns here aren't quite long enough to load it sufficiently to kill that touch of top-end fierceness.
Scottmoose said:
Fully agree with Scott here about the HF extension of the 206 (I have the Planet10 mods) it in no way as far as I can tell needs a tweeter, and others have commented on this too.
so:
Driver: fe206
enclosure: BiB
& possibly a supertweeter.
Cool, time to get some specs/details and order some stuff...
Bib thread... 173 Pages... hmm
Driver: fe206
enclosure: BiB
& possibly a supertweeter.
Cool, time to get some specs/details and order some stuff...
Bib thread... 173 Pages... hmm
Have any of you guys got recommendations for a supertweeter in this sort of application. I have been thinking of trying one with my Chillis/FE167's
stevodude said:
in your last post you said you may pick up both the 206 and the 207 -- in that case why not just spring for the 208esigma. not sure if anyone's built one yet but i remember reading that it should be awesome. try a search in the giant bib thread.
good luck!
I mentioned part of this elsewhere, but so there's a record here, the first new spawn designs for a while are now finished. They should appear shortly, once Dave's had chance to draw them up. Both are hyper-simple double-vent cabinets: Vampyr for the FE103E, & Venom for the FE127E. Both are primarily designed for small piece / group acoustic music and are named after de Havilland built fighters (although Dave & I prefer the traditional Vampyr spelling).
These will also be the first step in rationalisation of the spawn cabs. Venom, for example, will replace the current Olivia design, and a couple of the other boxes are about due for retirement.
These will also be the first step in rationalisation of the spawn cabs. Venom, for example, will replace the current Olivia design, and a couple of the other boxes are about due for retirement.
Sachiko?
Hi Scott,
Just wanted to check that you won't be retiring the Sachiko any time soon? I've spent the last week or so searching the threads for tips/advice re. this design but still have some outstanding questions.
My primary q's are...
* How large - or small - a room would you recommend for the Sachiko? I live in a 'typical' U.K. semi-detached.
* Is it the "best over-all" design for the Fe206e where I would only need to cut 90* angles for the enclosures? 😉
Many thanks,
Steve
Hi Scott,
Just wanted to check that you won't be retiring the Sachiko any time soon? I've spent the last week or so searching the threads for tips/advice re. this design but still have some outstanding questions.
My primary q's are...
* How large - or small - a room would you recommend for the Sachiko? I live in a 'typical' U.K. semi-detached.
* Is it the "best over-all" design for the Fe206e where I would only need to cut 90* angles for the enclosures? 😉
Many thanks,
Steve
No, it's going nowhere.
WRT how large, depends how well damped it is. Ideally 15ft x 20ft or better, but it'll do OK in a smaller room providing you can keep it away from side-walls. 10ft x 12ft is pretty much out of course (and that's assuming they'd fit into it), although you can bleed off a little pressure if necessary if it over-loads a space.
I'm not exactly neutral, but of the available DIY cabinets employing this kind of expansion, then yes, I believe it is.
WRT how large, depends how well damped it is. Ideally 15ft x 20ft or better, but it'll do OK in a smaller room providing you can keep it away from side-walls. 10ft x 12ft is pretty much out of course (and that's assuming they'd fit into it), although you can bleed off a little pressure if necessary if it over-loads a space.
I'm not exactly neutral, but of the available DIY cabinets employing this kind of expansion, then yes, I believe it is.
about the Sachiko.....
I've glued the backs, top, & bottom together but before I cut the front piece ( the baffle ), I need to raise the driver from 32"-40"
to 40"- 48". My plan is to gain 3 " at the upper mouth ( 12" instead of 15"), using .5 " lumber inside, raising the whole cabinet 2 " off the floor and squeezing the rest inside on the top half and expanding the bottom half. Having not heard these speakers before, I'm hoping that leaving the line-length the same and not changing the 'box' behind the 206e but tweaking the path itself will work. Have you any thoughts?
I've glued the backs, top, & bottom together but before I cut the front piece ( the baffle ), I need to raise the driver from 32"-40"
to 40"- 48". My plan is to gain 3 " at the upper mouth ( 12" instead of 15"), using .5 " lumber inside, raising the whole cabinet 2 " off the floor and squeezing the rest inside on the top half and expanding the bottom half. Having not heard these speakers before, I'm hoping that leaving the line-length the same and not changing the 'box' behind the 206e but tweaking the path itself will work. Have you any thoughts?
Yep. I can't make out exactly what it is you're up to, but it sounds ominously like you're going to screw up the expansion something chronic. May I suggest you stop (like now-ish) & explain carefully & clearly exactly what it is you're proposing & why? That way at least we can ensure you don't waste a lot of your time & money on something which might go to go pear-shaped in a major way.
....Yikes........Thanks.
I broke in this set of 206e s in a BIB for a year where the driver was high enough off of the floor to use both as the mains for the tv and the stereo. The problem is that there is a sofa in front of the tv so in the Sachiko the driver is too low. I need to raise the driver 8". I first thought of just setting the cabinet on a raised platform and that would be the simple solution but then, after half a bottle of good red wine, I started to think & tweaking the cabinet would save the floor effect (Mexican Tile). I've already cut the big pieces to 72' high or I would just make it taller.
I'm using .5 inch MDF for the backs, sides, tops, bottoms, & interior divides. I have .5 inch Birch Plywood for the fronts.
I was going to leave the space behind the driver as designed and lined.
I broke in this set of 206e s in a BIB for a year where the driver was high enough off of the floor to use both as the mains for the tv and the stereo. The problem is that there is a sofa in front of the tv so in the Sachiko the driver is too low. I need to raise the driver 8". I first thought of just setting the cabinet on a raised platform and that would be the simple solution but then, after half a bottle of good red wine, I started to think & tweaking the cabinet would save the floor effect (Mexican Tile). I've already cut the big pieces to 72' high or I would just make it taller.
I'm using .5 inch MDF for the backs, sides, tops, bottoms, & interior divides. I have .5 inch Birch Plywood for the fronts.
I was going to leave the space behind the driver as designed and lined.
Wince. You're asking for it in no uncertain terms by using 1/2in material on a cabinet this size. You're going to have to reduce all the dimensions slightly to account for the thinner material changing the dimensions of the horn, and that's the least of your problems. Next up, 1/2in, even BB, is nothing like stiff enough, and if the majority is to be MDF, you're screwed. This thing is going to ring like a bell slap-bang in the middle of its operating BW, and believe me, you don't want to know what it will sound like. Do not skimp on materials.
WRT driver height, why not make life easy for yourself & tilt the cabinet backward, so the drivers are aimed at your ears? Raising the front an inch or so, via a plinth / feet, should easily achieve that for you, sitting ~8ft away.
WRT driver height, why not make life easy for yourself & tilt the cabinet backward, so the drivers are aimed at your ears? Raising the front an inch or so, via a plinth / feet, should easily achieve that for you, sitting ~8ft away.
Yikes Again.........
I thought you guys loved MDF. I suspected the wood baffle might be iffy but since it's glued and braced within a 12", I hoped for the best. How about I go buy some .75 inch MDF for the baffle and the chamber behind the driver.
Actually, with the 50" tv, the sofa facing me and a large coffee table between me and the drivers, it's about 13 feet away and to clear the sofa and be in the middle of the tv screen it has to be 48" to 48" high. I'm probably going to lose the floor effect against the back of the sofa anyway so it's really a matter of getting the driver up and the top horn right. Sorry to screw-up your great speaker design but I'm trying to adapt to the landscape.
On another idea, would somehow roughing up the MDF divider surfaces help disperse unwanted HF waves or does the length of the line-length and some stuffing behind the driver do that?
Thanks for your help.
I thought you guys loved MDF. I suspected the wood baffle might be iffy but since it's glued and braced within a 12", I hoped for the best. How about I go buy some .75 inch MDF for the baffle and the chamber behind the driver.
Actually, with the 50" tv, the sofa facing me and a large coffee table between me and the drivers, it's about 13 feet away and to clear the sofa and be in the middle of the tv screen it has to be 48" to 48" high. I'm probably going to lose the floor effect against the back of the sofa anyway so it's really a matter of getting the driver up and the top horn right. Sorry to screw-up your great speaker design but I'm trying to adapt to the landscape.
On another idea, would somehow roughing up the MDF divider surfaces help disperse unwanted HF waves or does the length of the line-length and some stuffing behind the driver do that?
Thanks for your help.
Re: Yikes Again.........
Scott's very well engineered designs are finely tuned to the designated driver's parameters.
Adapting them this extensively "to the landscape" is a very risky enterprise, even if well executed with the specified materials.
On the matter of MDF vs plywood, to say that opinions vary widely on the contributions of material type to the final performance would be an understatement. As a matter of record, I'm a firm advocate of plywood - true multipy all veneer core ("baltic birch" etc) to be specific.
The substantial changes you've suggested in terms of cabinet dimensions and material thickness will likely have a far greater deleterious affect on final performance that the choice of material type
If you do proceed with the project as proposed, I'd suggest it would be fair to call it something else than the name on Scott's plans .
edgebc said:
Scott's very well engineered designs are finely tuned to the designated driver's parameters.
Adapting them this extensively "to the landscape" is a very risky enterprise, even if well executed with the specified materials.
On the matter of MDF vs plywood, to say that opinions vary widely on the contributions of material type to the final performance would be an understatement. As a matter of record, I'm a firm advocate of plywood - true multipy all veneer core ("baltic birch" etc) to be specific.
The substantial changes you've suggested in terms of cabinet dimensions and material thickness will likely have a far greater deleterious affect on final performance that the choice of material type
If you do proceed with the project as proposed, I'd suggest it would be fair to call it something else than the name on Scott's plans .
Groan.
As Chris said, the massive changes to the horn layout, length, expansion & dimensions will have more of an effect than the choice of material, and none of them are going to be very pleasent. You're on your own if you go down that road. What you are proposing will depart from my design in just about every conceivable way, and will completely destroy its performance. May I gently suggest you find something else a little more suitable? If not -as a personal request, if you decide to go ahead despite the warnings, please don't call it Sachiko. I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea. No offense.
For the rest, MDF is about the worst possible material for a horn -for starters, the damned stuff isn't particularly stiff, but being relatively dense, it retains energy like a pig, it's resonant BW is located in just about the worst possible place, and has a very slow decay time. You'd need to go to about 1 1/4in - 1 1/2in thicknessess to match the stiffness of BB ply, & it will then need to be very heavily damped indeed due to the high mass & resonant BW being wider, at a lower frequency & of a higher amplitude. The internal panels will help a bit, but nothing like enough for 1/2in - 3/4in MDF, especially for the large panels. Not a good plan. Sachiko was intended from the outset for 3/4in BB & its characteristics / requirements.
No, you don't need to rough up the surface of the internal panels, there isn't any HF leakage, the low pass chamber & folding sort that out.
As Chris said, the massive changes to the horn layout, length
For the rest, MDF is about the worst possible material for a horn -for starters, the damned stuff isn't particularly stiff, but being relatively dense, it retains energy like a pig, it's resonant BW is located in just about the worst possible place, and has a very slow decay time. You'd need to go to about 1 1/4in - 1 1/2in thicknessess to match the stiffness of BB ply, & it will then need to be very heavily damped indeed due to the high mass & resonant BW being wider, at a lower frequency & of a higher amplitude. The internal panels will help a bit, but nothing like enough for 1/2in - 3/4in MDF, especially for the large panels. Not a good plan. Sachiko was intended from the outset for 3/4in BB & its characteristics / requirements.
No, you don't need to rough up the surface of the internal panels, there isn't any HF leakage, the low pass chamber & folding sort that out.
please don't call it Sachiko.
Suckhiko maybe?
Scott old friend i know the feeling.
ron
(still waiting for a upward firing half chang)
Suckhiko maybe?
Scott old friend i know the feeling.
ron
(still waiting for a upward firing half chang)
😀
Got a BR 3-way to redesign as a TL for some mates, & then the upward-firing HC will head the 'to do' list. 🙂 Should be able to get onto it next week.
Scott
Got a BR 3-way to redesign as a TL for some mates, & then the upward-firing HC will head the 'to do' list. 🙂 Should be able to get onto it next week.
Scott
Groan indeed......
Well, that's enough of that.......I'm glad I asked.
That would explain why I wasn't satisfied with the BIB(MDF).
.75 " plywood it is.
Would there be any point in turning a Half-Chang on it's head or building half of some other design so the horn is at the top.
Well, that's enough of that.......I'm glad I asked.
That would explain why I wasn't satisfied with the BIB(MDF).
.75 " plywood it is.
Would there be any point in turning a Half-Chang on it's head or building half of some other design so the horn is at the top.