Big can be good. However, I didn't design Shadow to be enormous: I designed it to be reasonably sized. Simple as that. With the SD12 you should get good output down to ~20Hz & there's the TLs Dave & I did above for those who want more. Re the expanding line / horn, that one might need a little tweaking & changing away from an So=0 configuration as there will be massive pressure there. They were primarily examples -think metal-working blanks which are stored & then refined if needed.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shadow SD12
now that's a knife! how would this puppy work in a tapped?
is the SD12 sealed?
planet10 said:
now that's a knife! how would this puppy work in a tapped?
is the SD12 sealed?
Scottmoose said:
my initial impression was that this driver needed more "chug" capacity from the enclosure; hence the comment about stacking.
can the tl's be folded a bit?
btw - you guys do great work.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shadow SD12
I don't know. Probably quite well. TBH, I've never needed to find out. Re the other, well, it meets the design goals. Those might not necessarily be yours of course.
nuconz said:
I don't know. Probably quite well. TBH, I've never needed to find out. Re the other, well, it meets the design goals. Those might not necessarily be yours of course.
So no one is aware of the Shadow actually being constructed?
Scott, the 96 inch BIB would be a fun project, but my ceiling height in my basement listening room would prevent it. With this particular BIB, being a sub unit, could it be placed horizontally and still be effective? Perhaps set up off the floor on stands of some sort with the mouth exiting near a corner?
Scott, the 96 inch BIB would be a fun project, but my ceiling height in my basement listening room would prevent it. With this particular BIB, being a sub unit, could it be placed horizontally and still be effective? Perhaps set up off the floor on stands of some sort with the mouth exiting near a corner?
It sims OK in a tapped horn if you use resonators to damp its two high Q HF peaks like is done in DSL's DTS-20. It sims real nice in a tiny tapped pipe, but unfortunately there's no way the driver will fit, though I imagine an ugly blister in the otherwise svelte column would solve the problem.
WRT vertically Vs horizontally opposed BIBs, THs, TPs firing into floor/wall corners, this is what I did with them since typically you get far better loading, especially mid-bass, than if ceiling loaded and I assume why folks often describe BIB bass as 'open', 'relaxed' or some-such.
My fave pipe horn install was two built-in along the sound wall each firing into a corner and dimensioned to be a platform for an early Sony front projector TV, large Ohm speakers, equipment rack, all of which helped to mass load them, 'killing two birds with one stone'. It was pretty awesome for the day, we wound up mounting the TT in a ceiling suspended macrome net his wife made to isolate it from the chest compressing room modes.
GM
WRT vertically Vs horizontally opposed BIBs, THs, TPs firing into floor/wall corners, this is what I did with them since typically you get far better loading, especially mid-bass, than if ceiling loaded and I assume why folks often describe BIB bass as 'open', 'relaxed' or some-such.
My fave pipe horn install was two built-in along the sound wall each firing into a corner and dimensioned to be a platform for an early Sony front projector TV, large Ohm speakers, equipment rack, all of which helped to mass load them, 'killing two birds with one stone'. It was pretty awesome for the day, we wound up mounting the TT in a ceiling suspended macrome net his wife made to isolate it from the chest compressing room modes.
GM
Any hints, tips, modifications on the BIB Sub plans before getting started?
Do you think having two is overkill or is it desireable to run them in stereo firing in opposite corners. My experience with subs is limited.
Do you think having two is overkill or is it desireable to run them in stereo firing in opposite corners. My experience with subs is limited.
Not really, although just keep an eye on the driver & line terminus as there will be massive pressure there.
I like the sounds of that.....
Not this sort you wouldn't -this is the sort that breaks things. As in breaks drivers & cabinets, unless you're careful. I was talking about the sealed end of the line. Picture the kind of compression that will go on in that point with a big driver. Probably not as much of an issue with these single-tapped horns, as the DSL type of double-tapped, but when it comes to LF duties, I'm all for a little conservatism in the design / engineering.
If you want to take it to extremes, boost internal width to 15in, depth of the sealed end to 5.375in, depth of the terminus to 21.5in, & shift the driver 79.875in down from the sealed end. See attached. This is with 0.25lbs ft^3 of damping above the driver. You can damp the peak at tuning down by increasing the density to 0.5lbs ft^3 if you wish, but I thought you might like the extra gain for the sim. These are for sub duties, not use as woofers, so I wouldn't run them too high -below ~60 - 80Hz or so. You could go lower of course, but I'm thinking that with 8ft build material, this is as large as practical for a simple single fold design.
If you want to take it to extremes, boost internal width to 15in, depth of the sealed end to 5.375in, depth of the terminus to 21.5in, & shift the driver 79.875in down from the sealed end. See attached. This is with 0.25lbs ft^3 of damping above the driver. You can damp the peak at tuning down by increasing the density to 0.5lbs ft^3 if you wish, but I thought you might like the extra gain for the sim. These are for sub duties, not use as woofers, so I wouldn't run them too high -below ~60 - 80Hz or so. You could go lower of course, but I'm thinking that with 8ft build material, this is as large as practical for a simple single fold design.
Attachments
cervelorider said:
No, just the usual stuffing to suit (if any) in the peak and since it will be BW limited to LF, none elsewhere.
For 'stereo', ideally you would put them in diagonally opposing corners, i.e. left front/right rear for example, but this requires a very low XO point for use with ~full range mains. Otherwise, both corners of the sound wall and accept the 'sawtooth' response it yields if you don't tune them individually to complement each other, which is well beyond the scope of the casual DIYer. Thanks to our poor LF hearing acuity, this isn't nearly as obvious/bad sounding as it implies though.
GM
cervelorider said:
Shadow (with Extremis 6,8) has been built and turned out well. I don't know of anyone doing the SD12 version but i think we will.
dave
GM said:
hate to be dumb, but is there a glossary of abbreviations on this forum for the uninitiated? i don't always follow these.
Scottmoose said:
how would shadow work if corner horn loaded for the front radiation and keep the back the same? i know this is a huge stretch.
nuconz said:
None I'm aware of WRT audio related. Some folks figure them out and some don't. Some you have to have a well rounded knowledge in speaker design.
'WRT', SAF, WAF, TTBOMK, TIA, etc. among many others are in the Net Lingo library: http://www.netlingo.com/
GM
nuconz said:
It would be a completely different design, rather than a stretch. As for how would such a device work, it would depend on the proportions & tuning of the front horn.
Popeye (aka half-Olivia)
We may be slowing down, but the flow hasn't stopped...
http://p10hifi.net/tlinespeakers/FH/download/popeye-1v0-map-230908.pdf
This one is also leading to Olivia 2v0
dave
We may be slowing down, but the flow hasn't stopped...
http://p10hifi.net/tlinespeakers/FH/download/popeye-1v0-map-230908.pdf
This one is also leading to Olivia 2v0
dave
Attachments
nuconz said:
Assuming it's purely for LF bass duties, not particularly. You'd be better off with a tapped horn or similar.
