Spawn of Frugel-Horn

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#1,425
Alan Hope said:
OK, my tuppence worth on my Sachikos. You can view the build process at Sachiko Build Photos

This report was delayed by a surprisingly long burn-in, first the speakers, then some Solid Silver Kit ICs. Sound now seems settled, system as my sig. I have listened to a lot of music on these.

Overall impressions - they have that wow factor in spades. Not only big and imposing, but a weighty solid sound – yet crystal clear and entirely lacking any harshness. (I was a bit worried they would sound light - I’ve never heard horns before). These speakers are not flustered by any of my CDs! They slightly lack the deepest bass (I got that from my previous IPL4 Transmission Lines) noticeable not just on Massive Attack / Air, but also later Paul Simon stuff. However the bass is smooth and fast and the double-mouth seems to excite room resonances less than my prev speakers. Hard to stop listening!

They are very dynamic. Classical music comes to life on these. I can genuinely say that I have enjoyed more of my CDs than before.

Undemanding music of all genres is beautifully presented (all the KD Lang, Sting, Nutcracker Suite, Dire Straits, etc etc). Some more testing CDs included

Television “Marquee Moon” / Elvis Costello “Best of the first 10 years”. These are spiky recordings, Elvis’ raspy vocals are forward in the mix and some clangy guitar-work. Comes across very well indeed. Clear but not harsh.

Bach “Mass in B Minor” (EMI BMV232). The first minute of this has massed female and male choirs over a church organ. A severe harshness test – the Sachikos showed a hint of this at the loudest point – but are the best I’ve heard.

The Prodigy “Music for the Jilted Generation”. Art Tatum “Tiger Rag” rec 1940. Very enjoyable.

I know the fostexs well from long listening in temporary enclosures. The Sachikos do as the designer intended – flesh out the bass giving a very even-handed, weighty and smooth speaker. The lovely clarity of the Fostexs remains unchanged.

Criticisms: I noticed a minor peak around 120Hz on some CDs. This may require some damping, or may be a room-resonance. Treble has noticeable beaming (will try EnABLing the phase plugs too). This is a FE206E characteristic not Sachiko. And that is it.

I could go on – happy to answer questions. Delighted with the speakers because I did not know what I was getting into here. Big thanks to Scotmoose and all else who contributed to this project! I owe you one.
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Alan, they look great! I have fallen into the eternal DIY trap and not yet got round to finishing the cabinets, though I already have the oak paint on stain to do the job. You sound as pleased as I am with mine!

John, sounds like a plan.

Steve.
 
#1,427
Scottmoose said:
Yep. Nice work indeed Alan. Glad you like them.
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I do indeed. Now got some extended listening under my belt:

They are very revealing of other system components. I had to give up on my silver interconnects - overall balance remained too thin. May come back to these later. Perhaps this was what prompted the "fostexes don't like silver" comments. They are MUCH happier with the VdHs. Would be interesting to know what effect the internal wiring is having.

Bass drops off very sharply indeed (as expected, but it sort of surprises you coming from such imposing speakers). I now realise I had been spoiled by the IPL transmission-lines that just kept going down and down.

I'm scared of changing anything now, the system is nicely balanced. I will EnABL the phase plugs, rebox my Charlize and add multiple inputs. Then it's listening time!
 
#1,428
I haven't commented much on mine since I built them but I am more impressed every day with my Sachikos. The biggest improvement came when I finally figured out how to dial them in to get a soundstage. Absolute night and day difference and makes for a very involved experience and takes a lot of the harshness out. I am putting the finishing touches on my First Watt F3, actually closer to the ZenV9 and like what I have heard from it so far. Can't wait to get it hooked to the Sachiko's. Even on a cheap Pioneer 2 way bookshelf speaker with 6.5" woofer voices sound natural, full, and pleasing. Only thing with the ZenV9 is I may have to build or buy a preamp as the amp doesn't have much gain.

On the other hand, I don't think the material I chose for damping the box is very effective and will most likely try swapping it out with polyfill or fiberglass. The carpet matting doesn't seem to absorb much sound when I speak into it.

I'm glad you are liking your Sachiko's as well Alan, hopefully we can bounce some ideas off each other.

Also trying to find a source for the Owens-Corning 705 and 703 to build some bass traps with. Also going to build a stand that holes a 2X4' sheet that will be placed equidistant away from the sides of the speakers at the first reflection point next to the wall.
 
#1,429
aquapiranha said:
al, I am sure we are all interested in a thread on your build.

Oh, and Hi to another north west DIY'er!

Steve.
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Hi again and thanks Steve. Once I have some interesting photos I'll start a thread.

Is there a thread for DIY issues? I want some advice on what glue to use. I have seen soem snippets n other threads but not much all together. Is there a consensus? Do certain glues sound better? 😀 My thoughts are on some hard setting wood glue. I have been looking at a hot melt gun, but the short set times are a bit scary for a newb.

Off to the wood shop in five. My cutting sheet in hand.

Laters,

Al
 
#1,434
Alan Hope said:

They are very revealing of other system components. I had to give up on my silver interconnects - overall balance remained too thin. May come back to these later. Perhaps this was what prompted the "fostexes don't like silver" comments....
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Brief update (sorry for so many posts). Eventually bass returned and treble edginess disappeared. Silver ICs are back in. Utterly delighted! The Fostex forward mids are still there - but detailed and buttery smooth.

tip - if you are thinking of wiring Sachikos with silver then burn it in first on a less sensitive speaker / resistor or get it toasted. It takes maddening ages done in-speaker. The bass was the last to settle - but boy it is good now! To think I came close to giving up on these.
 
#1,436
I second that request, I just built a pair of these for my 206ES-R's and was wondering what people have tried as far as stuffing was concerned.

Has anyone tried an FE208E sigma and a ribbon driver in the Sachiko? I'm thinking of taking the plunge and trying that combination before I install phase plugs, etc in the ES-R's.

Anyone?

Oh, and thanks to Scott and Dave for making it possible!
 
#1,437
crick said:
HI Alan,
Any final thoughts/changes on stuffing,Those cabinets are still on top of my list for my 206es-r's.

Thanks,Doug
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Doug

I presume you mean the chamber behind the driver. I lined this with a very thin felt layer stuck down with PVA glue - minimal damping. I have done no further experiments here, and see no point until the sound has settled. I see two potential problems in this area: standing wave resonance and direct reflection of sound back out through the driver.

There is a minor FR peak somewhere around 110hz. This is currently only very mildly intrusive. At some point I will stuff the chamber with polyfill just to see what effect this has.

The cabinets' main "problem" is sheer bulk and weight - they dominate a room and need wheeled stands. Impressive!

Alan
 
#1,440
As far as the polyfill goes, I still have found some above and below the driver to be necessary with the ESR driver. Otherwise, the sound just seems to be a bit too "hard" and/or too "lively".
I've also done some experimenting with reducing the compression chamber volume with lead shot in sealed bags as well as blocking/reducing the throat path width a bit with two boards cut to reduce the opening and held in place by a tight fit and the lead shot. (So you can remove it) These do change the character of the sound, but I won't spoil it for those wishing to experiment for themselves. 😉
 
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