Thanks for the responses guys. Scott, I think you are probably onto something with the amp. Another thing is if you look up at that first pic I posted you'll note that that screen somewhat forced me to compromise on the distance between the speakers. Last night I decided to start my search again for a better image and ended up with the speakers about a foot closer to each other and the speakers toed just a "smudge" out from directly facing the listening position. I would say it was a notable difference Perhaps still not "perfect" but at least I'm getting somewhere.
A curious thing happens at the beginning of all listening sessions. I leave the amp, cd player, and power supply (bigger than the stock power supply) on all the time. But there is a definate change that occurs within the first 15 minues of actually playing. At first it all sounds anemic, cold, harsh, weak bass but sitting there it all smooths out after a period of about 15-30 minutes. I don't know which component(s) is the culprit. It might be the lobes attatched to my head component.
I've since decided that I will not be using the subwoofer except for perhaps specific circumstances as it really detrimentally effects the fidelity of the mids and highs.
As a side note, after it was all realigned and I moved the speakers closer together and warmed it all up. I just purchased and played the "Klazz Brothers - Classic Meets Cuba" I listened to the CD straight through for the first time and this recording sounds absolutely extraordinary on the sanchikos. I could not pull myself away from my chair dispite the many responsibilities I was neglecting. Truly amazing work. If you can obtain it, DO SO!
A curious thing happens at the beginning of all listening sessions. I leave the amp, cd player, and power supply (bigger than the stock power supply) on all the time. But there is a definate change that occurs within the first 15 minues of actually playing. At first it all sounds anemic, cold, harsh, weak bass but sitting there it all smooths out after a period of about 15-30 minutes. I don't know which component(s) is the culprit. It might be the lobes attatched to my head component.
I've since decided that I will not be using the subwoofer except for perhaps specific circumstances as it really detrimentally effects the fidelity of the mids and highs.
As a side note, after it was all realigned and I moved the speakers closer together and warmed it all up. I just purchased and played the "Klazz Brothers - Classic Meets Cuba" I listened to the CD straight through for the first time and this recording sounds absolutely extraordinary on the sanchikos. I could not pull myself away from my chair dispite the many responsibilities I was neglecting. Truly amazing work. If you can obtain it, DO SO!
on paper, more extended and rising output from about 1500 to 15K or so - I think a good argument could be made as to whether that's necessarily "better"AnaKinDV8 said:
If i were to add a supertweeter to the 207 in a Chang DM BVR, is it better on top inside the cabinet, or outside where its adjustable (front-back, up-down)?
![IMGDEAD]](/community/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F%5BIMGDEAD%5Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fpic16.picturetrail.com%2FVOL686%2F2650556%2F5287668%2F309783875.jpg%5B%2FIMGDEAD%5D&hash=cf2af2b4a2a83087599f64e605213077)
Personally, even when executed with artistic flair and consummate craftsmanship like on the Cain & Cain series, the side-pod mounted always struck me as an afterthought. The bullet tweeters are normally intended to mount on the top of the cabinet in those nice little wooden cradles, so securely affixing them to the side of the enclosure requires some creative woodworking. I'd also suspect that adjusting the mounting "depth" would create some diffraction issues.
Furthermore, while the FT96 is only approx 1dB more sensitive than the FE207 - the T90 is and additional 9dB over that.
It's always been my experience that the closer you can align the raw sensitivities of multiple drivers, the lower the parts count and cost of the XO filter network required. Of course with new gadgets such as Behringer et al digital EQ & crossovers, a new set of "solutions" are possible.
There's also the substantial difference in cost between the 2 tweeters. While I think the additional magnetic strength and case fabrication of the T90 is well justified, the differential between of a pair of the two is close to the price of a single piece of either the 206 or 207.
Finally, with the total sensitivity of even the 207E (circa 95dB), unless you're planning of filling an auditorium, you should be quite happily tapping your feet with as little as 3-5W - right in the neighourhood of many very nice little SET or SEP tube amps.
Even with my far less efficient FE126 and FE127 systems, which for my broken 56yr old ears definitely need no tweeters, I still greatly prefer either the Bottlehead Paramour 2A3 or a DIY EL84 class A P/P (both under 4 watts) to the latest of the class D /T amps (e.g. Trends 10.0 and Kingrex T20U), or any of the much higher power P/P tube amps I've yet heard. The Kingrex is now plugged into my TV speakers, and is so efficient and runs so cool that I never bother to turn it off (I'd bet the standby power consumption on the HD digital modem and plasma TV is higher than the amp)
Sachikos finally making sound!
The whole DIY story is at:
Sachiko Build Pictures
Sound better than I had hoped! Initial slightly closed in sound, then an ugly peak at about 120hz had me vainly repositioning them. After going out for a day leaving them playing they have now opened out and sound much more even and relaxed. Lovely!
The changes remind me of my cable days - may well be changes in the internal silver/teflon (the drivers were already well broken in).
Will post some detailed listening notes here once the sound has stabilised. My initial slight misgivings have evaporated - these are now by far the best speakers I have ever heard, period.
The whole DIY story is at:
Sachiko Build Pictures
Sound better than I had hoped! Initial slightly closed in sound, then an ugly peak at about 120hz had me vainly repositioning them. After going out for a day leaving them playing they have now opened out and sound much more even and relaxed. Lovely!
The changes remind me of my cable days - may well be changes in the internal silver/teflon (the drivers were already well broken in).
Will post some detailed listening notes here once the sound has stabilised. My initial slight misgivings have evaporated - these are now by far the best speakers I have ever heard, period.
I'm glad to hear you are liking them. Nice job. You are using a very similar amp to my Super TAmp. I have an itch I have to scratch now and have started work on building a First Watt F3 so I will probably be putting the Super T back on my Polk Audio RTI 4's. How do you have them positioned? Toe angle, distance from wall, distance form each other?
G'day Alan,
Nice work and great pics!
Now all you need to do is put the EnABL pattern in the mouths and on the baffles! 😀
Well done!
Cheers,
Alex
Nice work and great pics!
Now all you need to do is put the EnABL pattern in the mouths and on the baffles! 😀
Well done!
Cheers,
Alex
Marsfrogie said:
Sounds good, Mars. I'm now looking at a Transcendant Sound Grounded Grid preamp kit, then shorting out the pot and using my Charlize as a power amp. It has enough grunt, detail, and control. Pound is strong against USD just now so even with import duty ...
These ruddy itches are too powerful to ignore!!!
Positioning is pretty much determined by room (+wife). Either side of a large bay window, only a couple of inches from back wall, 3 ft from sides, toed in about 10° - gave me a wide soundstage with no holes, and a big enough sweet spot.
It's good having bass coming from both horn mouths - seems to reduce room resonances.
Alex from Oz said:
Alex - probably first on the phase plugs. Then I MAY try some of your stick on EnABL on the baffles / mouths.
I hear ya! 🙂
Alan Hope said:
Well you already know how good EnABL'd drivers sound.
If you think the Sachiko's sound good now, once you do the baffle and mouths, I guarantee, you won't go back...
It's truly incredible what you can achieve with some duct tape and the right pattern.
Cheers,
Alex
Sorry no sound report yet ...
... rather to my surprise the sound is not yet consistent. Given that the drivers and all other components are well broken in, I presume it is the internal wiring (silver/teflon).
Today - bass had largely smoothed out - much less boominess, and sounding increasingly good. But a closed in, slightly grainy and receding treble. I was working in the house, so put a CD on repeat. After 6 hours or so - the treble opened out, sounded much clearer and has now lost the grain. Change was pretty dramatic.
At the moment they sound truly great. Hopefully will stay like this, or even improve.
Once the sound has settled, I'll post detailed listening notes.
... rather to my surprise the sound is not yet consistent. Given that the drivers and all other components are well broken in, I presume it is the internal wiring (silver/teflon).
Today - bass had largely smoothed out - much less boominess, and sounding increasingly good. But a closed in, slightly grainy and receding treble. I was working in the house, so put a CD on repeat. After 6 hours or so - the treble opened out, sounded much clearer and has now lost the grain. Change was pretty dramatic.
At the moment they sound truly great. Hopefully will stay like this, or even improve.
Once the sound has settled, I'll post detailed listening notes.
Does anyone know if the Aiko Spawn will work with a Fostex FE126E?
My daughter wants me to build her something and I'd like to try a plan other than a BIB and not spend a ton of drivers.
My daughter wants me to build her something and I'd like to try a plan other than a BIB and not spend a ton of drivers.
gnugear said:
Scott might chome in, but with a little rasp work we could find out 1st hand... mind you we'll be popping FE126eN into them. Someone bought the phase plugs out of my 108s so Aiko is sitting unplayed.
dave
gnugear said:
great idea - we'll probably try that out as soon as Dave can get around to it.
- the FE108E Sigma works much better in this box than the Lyeco did, and without getting anal about tweaking to the FE126E's T/S parameters, the cheaper driver could be even more impressive
2 suggestions - suprabaffle (ours was an MDF
CNC machined ellipse) , and cone treatment.no, make that 3 suggestions:
BB or equivalent plywood, not MDF for these - but that does mean the material could cost more than the drivers.
I am building some Harvey's for FE 108es's out of BB. I noticed there is a hidden line for what I guesstimated are 12'' suprabaffles. Is there any info on dia. and profile? and is this a worthwhile addition? Thanks, Jerry
14in, but not a flat panel. Good luck with the build. It's not designed for the 108, but should do OK, providing you go easy with the volume knob.
OK, my tuppence worth on my Sachikos. You can view the build process at Sachiko Build Photos
This report was delayed by a surprisingly long burn-in, first the speakers, then some Solid Silver Kit ICs. Sound now seems settled, system as my sig. I have listened to a lot of music on these.
Overall impressions - they have that wow factor in spades. Not only big and imposing, but a weighty solid sound – yet crystal clear and entirely lacking any harshness. (I was a bit worried they would sound light - I’ve never heard horns before). These speakers are not flustered by any of my CDs! They slightly lack the deepest bass (I got that from my previous IPL4 Transmission Lines) noticeable not just on Massive Attack / Air, but also later Paul Simon stuff. However the bass is smooth and fast and the double-mouth seems to excite room resonances less than my prev speakers. Hard to stop listening!
They are very dynamic. Classical music comes to life on these. I can genuinely say that I have enjoyed more of my CDs than before.
Undemanding music of all genres is beautifully presented (all the KD Lang, Sting, Nutcracker Suite, Dire Straits, etc etc). Some more testing CDs included
Television “Marquee Moon” / Elvis Costello “Best of the first 10 years”. These are spiky recordings, Elvis’ raspy vocals are forward in the mix and some clangy guitar-work. Comes across very well indeed. Clear but not harsh.
Bach “Mass in B Minor” (EMI BMV232). The first minute of this has massed female and male choirs over a church organ. A severe harshness test – the Sachikos showed a hint of this at the loudest point – but are the best I’ve heard.
The Prodigy “Music for the Jilted Generation”. Art Tatum “Tiger Rag” rec 1940. Very enjoyable.
I know the fostexs well from long listening in temporary enclosures. The Sachikos do as the designer intended – flesh out the bass giving a very even-handed, weighty and smooth speaker. The lovely clarity of the Fostexs remains unchanged.
Criticisms: I noticed a minor peak around 120Hz on some CDs. This may require some damping, or may be a room-resonance. Treble has noticeable beaming (will try EnABLing the phase plugs too). This is a FE206E characteristic not Sachiko. And that is it.
I could go on – happy to answer questions. Delighted with the speakers because I did not know what I was getting into here. Big thanks to Scotmoose and all else who contributed to this project! I owe you one.
This report was delayed by a surprisingly long burn-in, first the speakers, then some Solid Silver Kit ICs. Sound now seems settled, system as my sig. I have listened to a lot of music on these.
Overall impressions - they have that wow factor in spades. Not only big and imposing, but a weighty solid sound – yet crystal clear and entirely lacking any harshness. (I was a bit worried they would sound light - I’ve never heard horns before). These speakers are not flustered by any of my CDs! They slightly lack the deepest bass (I got that from my previous IPL4 Transmission Lines) noticeable not just on Massive Attack / Air, but also later Paul Simon stuff. However the bass is smooth and fast and the double-mouth seems to excite room resonances less than my prev speakers. Hard to stop listening!
They are very dynamic. Classical music comes to life on these. I can genuinely say that I have enjoyed more of my CDs than before.
Undemanding music of all genres is beautifully presented (all the KD Lang, Sting, Nutcracker Suite, Dire Straits, etc etc). Some more testing CDs included
Television “Marquee Moon” / Elvis Costello “Best of the first 10 years”. These are spiky recordings, Elvis’ raspy vocals are forward in the mix and some clangy guitar-work. Comes across very well indeed. Clear but not harsh.
Bach “Mass in B Minor” (EMI BMV232). The first minute of this has massed female and male choirs over a church organ. A severe harshness test – the Sachikos showed a hint of this at the loudest point – but are the best I’ve heard.
The Prodigy “Music for the Jilted Generation”. Art Tatum “Tiger Rag” rec 1940. Very enjoyable.
I know the fostexs well from long listening in temporary enclosures. The Sachikos do as the designer intended – flesh out the bass giving a very even-handed, weighty and smooth speaker. The lovely clarity of the Fostexs remains unchanged.
Criticisms: I noticed a minor peak around 120Hz on some CDs. This may require some damping, or may be a room-resonance. Treble has noticeable beaming (will try EnABLing the phase plugs too). This is a FE206E characteristic not Sachiko. And that is it.
I could go on – happy to answer questions. Delighted with the speakers because I did not know what I was getting into here. Big thanks to Scotmoose and all else who contributed to this project! I owe you one.
Newbs first build - Gabriel
Hi y'all,
Been following the the various threads for about a year and am planning to build a pair of Gabriels.
The FE127s arrived the other day and currently sat in a box hooked up to my stock T-amp with the Prodigy on repeat (About 20 hours by bedtime tonight).
I am itching to get to the timber yard this weekend with my cutting plan.
Has anyone any tips with regards to the Gabriels? I have no idea why I chose them, I primarily went for the 127 because the planet 10 hifi people have lots of boxes if I don't like them.
I'm doing an MSc part time and that takes priority, but would anyone be interested in a build diary/Gabriel thread?
Al
Hi y'all,
Been following the the various threads for about a year and am planning to build a pair of Gabriels.
The FE127s arrived the other day and currently sat in a box hooked up to my stock T-amp with the Prodigy on repeat (About 20 hours by bedtime tonight).
I am itching to get to the timber yard this weekend with my cutting plan.
Has anyone any tips with regards to the Gabriels? I have no idea why I chose them, I primarily went for the 127 because the planet 10 hifi people have lots of boxes if I don't like them.
I'm doing an MSc part time and that takes priority, but would anyone be interested in a build diary/Gabriel thread?
Al
al, I am sure we are all interested in a thread on your build.
Oh, and Hi to another north west DIY'er!
Steve.
Oh, and Hi to another north west DIY'er!
Steve.