Well, it WAS nice to read how much you were enjoying it. You have already had such good luck overcoming the other issues in only just over a week, maybe another week or two would be worth the effort?
The only thing I can suggest goes back to the bearing. You drained it and added minimal lubrication. Most of the larger bearings I've seen want a bath, not a drop or two. Provided it's not too much of a headache to get at the bearing each time I would experiment to find a type or viscosity of oil that will go a certain way to damp the play and still let the platter turn smoothly. If the spindle is able to rock in the bushing and the lube is either dirty or dry then that might account for at least some of the speed variability . You did see it change on after your previous service of the bearing, you might get a longer lasting benefit if you find a better lube solution. That's what I would pursue if I had spent $!K on a deck where I'd managed to get everything else working .
There IS that dynamic between "You only get what you pay for." and "Woo Hoo! Serendipity!" I was kinda rooting for the Serendipity side. Good luck with whatever you decide.
The only thing I can suggest goes back to the bearing. You drained it and added minimal lubrication. Most of the larger bearings I've seen want a bath, not a drop or two. Provided it's not too much of a headache to get at the bearing each time I would experiment to find a type or viscosity of oil that will go a certain way to damp the play and still let the platter turn smoothly. If the spindle is able to rock in the bushing and the lube is either dirty or dry then that might account for at least some of the speed variability . You did see it change on after your previous service of the bearing, you might get a longer lasting benefit if you find a better lube solution. That's what I would pursue if I had spent $!K on a deck where I'd managed to get everything else working .
There IS that dynamic between "You only get what you pay for." and "Woo Hoo! Serendipity!" I was kinda rooting for the Serendipity side. Good luck with whatever you decide.
Thank you
The first time I got very low figures, the play was there, and the line was minimal. Just like now. It’s easy for me to experiment now, because I left the retaining plate out (for now). Oil bath would be great, but this is an inverted bearing, without the threaded lifting channel for oil, like in Audiomeca, for example. I still think that the problem is in the motor/electronics rather than the bearing. I may be wrong. I’m just getting burned out on this thing...
The first time I got very low figures, the play was there, and the line was minimal. Just like now. It’s easy for me to experiment now, because I left the retaining plate out (for now). Oil bath would be great, but this is an inverted bearing, without the threaded lifting channel for oil, like in Audiomeca, for example. I still think that the problem is in the motor/electronics rather than the bearing. I may be wrong. I’m just getting burned out on this thing...
So - it's final: since it's impossible to get the speed instability fixed, this table is for sale, all or parts. Will never get another used old Sota. And as for Sota's claim for "life-time upgradabilty"? You make your own decision, since I was offered $200 trade-in value on this thing, which was nearly $4000 in 1989. Thx to everyone for help.
What I cannot understand as an ex engineer is that Sota engineering is so hard to repair that it costs a fortune to do so.
What I think is that you are paying for Services and not actual parts .
In domestic products this is very widely known as I got years of --
It only cost me £/$ xxx but they want £/$ xxxx to repair/replace the part .
This is down to this "throwaway society " --faulty ?- buy another one .
Steel shafts of any steel alloy can be made -- bush bearings certainly can be made of many varieties of brass/copper alloy .
Whats the mystery in pulling something apart in engineering -especially mechanical engineering ?
I own mechanical measuring gauges for determining shaft sizes and bush bearing sizes in all types of "fit " and in my young days I changed motorbike engines into different frames having to cope with balance --distance to drives from the clutch to the back wheel - changing hydraulic suspension - magneto to alternator and so on including changes to clutches.
Nowadays spares are no longer held in large numbers --it costs say the conglomerates and even worse parts like washing machine bearing are sealed into the drum resulting in forced buying of the whole unit not just a bearing like I could buy at Skefko Bearing - walk in give sizes -buy bearing .
Then we have had -epoxied in - SEALED -no access and no we wont be proving diagrams said to be to stop copying but this applies to "security bolts/screws " where the general public is hampered from opening/repairing domestic equipment by ( at last count 48 different types ) I remember the days when it was only Allen screws that were different and mainly in industrial engineering .
Easily bought on a ring just make sure they weren't the cheap soft imports.
Its a different world now but is it any more "public friendly " ?--not from what I have seen nor the 1000,s of people buying items that break down easily and then have all sorts of obstacles put in their way getting reimbursed.
Try getting your money back from some of those massive conglomerates , I still get 30 complaints about it a day from my old website on just one thread.
What I think is that you are paying for Services and not actual parts .
In domestic products this is very widely known as I got years of --
It only cost me £/$ xxx but they want £/$ xxxx to repair/replace the part .
This is down to this "throwaway society " --faulty ?- buy another one .
Steel shafts of any steel alloy can be made -- bush bearings certainly can be made of many varieties of brass/copper alloy .
Whats the mystery in pulling something apart in engineering -especially mechanical engineering ?
I own mechanical measuring gauges for determining shaft sizes and bush bearing sizes in all types of "fit " and in my young days I changed motorbike engines into different frames having to cope with balance --distance to drives from the clutch to the back wheel - changing hydraulic suspension - magneto to alternator and so on including changes to clutches.
Nowadays spares are no longer held in large numbers --it costs say the conglomerates and even worse parts like washing machine bearing are sealed into the drum resulting in forced buying of the whole unit not just a bearing like I could buy at Skefko Bearing - walk in give sizes -buy bearing .
Then we have had -epoxied in - SEALED -no access and no we wont be proving diagrams said to be to stop copying but this applies to "security bolts/screws " where the general public is hampered from opening/repairing domestic equipment by ( at last count 48 different types ) I remember the days when it was only Allen screws that were different and mainly in industrial engineering .
Easily bought on a ring just make sure they weren't the cheap soft imports.
Its a different world now but is it any more "public friendly " ?--not from what I have seen nor the 1000,s of people buying items that break down easily and then have all sorts of obstacles put in their way getting reimbursed.
Try getting your money back from some of those massive conglomerates , I still get 30 complaints about it a day from my old website on just one thread.
Yes, they don't want to bother. It's easier for them to throw away old parts and sell you a new table for $10K. They are in business to make money, not to tend to your old piece of crap. Of course, they will rebuild it for you, but the price of refurbishing is so high that they push you towards buying a new one. Very simple. So restoration is left in the hands of the beholder. Not everyone has your experience and/or tools. If I had a shop it would have been easier. But I still maintain that the problem is in the motor and electronics. I've had tables with far worse play in the bushings, and they had no "wow".
If you think its the electronics controlling the motor then bypass the electronic speed control and run it using a separate power supply just to test if that is true .
Its easy nowadays to buy 1/2/3 phase AC or DC variable/fixed power supplies .
Origin Live for example sell the cheapest conversion for £265 /$350 and that includes the PS+motor+control .
Or DIY power supply.
Its easy nowadays to buy 1/2/3 phase AC or DC variable/fixed power supplies .
Origin Live for example sell the cheapest conversion for £265 /$350 and that includes the PS+motor+control .
Or DIY power supply.
I have a regulated PS. I couldn’t find anything wrong with the PS. I think the problem is in the motor control board. But I could try my power supply just for the help of it, albeit at this point I don’t want to do anything to this thing. Funny you should mention Origin Live: I wrote to them a couple of times asking what they recommend for this Sota, never got an answer. So how do I buy it if they don’t answer? I mean they have to give me a motor with correct speed and pulley...
A bunch of separate points blurted out :
Looking over the thread from the beginning and considering what you spent I go back to hoping you'll fix it. It's easy enough to test the motor supply output. If the resistors are out of spec. are they accessible enough to be easy to replace?
If Sota is tight lipped about specs then could you email photos and the ID codes printed on the board to Pabst and ask for speed specs and whether they have a drop in or suitable sub. If they don't, at least once you have the rpm data you can probably find what you need elsewhere.
You also said on pg. 1 with photo that the bearing and bushing look good so that's a relief, but from the photo the thrust pad looks looks like it could use a new one. To me it looks scored enough (and remembering that the speed did improve after you changed the lube on the bearing) that I would replace it just in case the ball could be binding or chattering in the pit.
Morale support:
From troubleshooting circuits my experience is that these issues are often a compound of more than one failure . If it's an accumulation of not terribly bad stuff then a series of not very difficult things will fix it. In that case, the biggest irritant has always been my own impatience.
Looking over the thread from the beginning and considering what you spent I go back to hoping you'll fix it. It's easy enough to test the motor supply output. If the resistors are out of spec. are they accessible enough to be easy to replace?
If Sota is tight lipped about specs then could you email photos and the ID codes printed on the board to Pabst and ask for speed specs and whether they have a drop in or suitable sub. If they don't, at least once you have the rpm data you can probably find what you need elsewhere.
You also said on pg. 1 with photo that the bearing and bushing look good so that's a relief, but from the photo the thrust pad looks looks like it could use a new one. To me it looks scored enough (and remembering that the speed did improve after you changed the lube on the bearing) that I would replace it just in case the ball could be binding or chattering in the pit.
Morale support:
From troubleshooting circuits my experience is that these issues are often a compound of more than one failure . If it's an accumulation of not terribly bad stuff then a series of not very difficult things will fix it. In that case, the biggest irritant has always been my own impatience.
Hello and thank you for your support
These Papst motors were notorious for problems, including speed instability. Schematic diagrams and specs for them are in public domain, and I have looked at them. No replacements are available.
What you see in the thrust plate picture is grease, that I cleaned out later. The sapphire piece is right in the center, it's tiny, about 2.5mm - 3mm in diameter. The only wear on it that I saw after I cleaned it with alchohol, and under a very heavy magnification, is a worn bit in the center, about 1/20th to 1/10th of a mm, really insignificant.
The only way to revive this table is to buy a motor/controller replacement, cost anywhere between $400 (if Origin Live has a suitable kit) to $750, for Sota's own. Plus the cost of the bushing replacement.
I unsoldered, checked and re-checked every component on the boards, I checked voltages etc, everything seems to be in order. It seems that the problem has been persistent, elusive and intermittent. I really desire to throw it out of my 4th floor window...
These Papst motors were notorious for problems, including speed instability. Schematic diagrams and specs for them are in public domain, and I have looked at them. No replacements are available.
What you see in the thrust plate picture is grease, that I cleaned out later. The sapphire piece is right in the center, it's tiny, about 2.5mm - 3mm in diameter. The only wear on it that I saw after I cleaned it with alchohol, and under a very heavy magnification, is a worn bit in the center, about 1/20th to 1/10th of a mm, really insignificant.
The only way to revive this table is to buy a motor/controller replacement, cost anywhere between $400 (if Origin Live has a suitable kit) to $750, for Sota's own. Plus the cost of the bushing replacement.
I unsoldered, checked and re-checked every component on the boards, I checked voltages etc, everything seems to be in order. It seems that the problem has been persistent, elusive and intermittent. I really desire to throw it out of my 4th floor window...
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Hi Duncan
Just got a quote from Origin Live dealer in NY - $640. Sota’s dedicated is $750.
Today I got a reply from OL headquarters -quote-
"we have not had anybody order a motor kit for a Sota turntable ,but we don't expect any issues .
Here are the fitting instructions we send out with our kits " -end quote ---(handy for future DIY Audio guys owning one )-
Fitting Methods For Motor Kits - Origin Live Award Winning Hi-Fi
"we have not had anybody order a motor kit for a Sota turntable ,but we don't expect any issues .
Here are the fitting instructions we send out with our kits " -end quote ---(handy for future DIY Audio guys owning one )-
Fitting Methods For Motor Kits - Origin Live Award Winning Hi-Fi
Intereting info from Pink Fish Media, same goes for their controllers:
"Ive checked out that it must be the MAXON 226774
https://shop.maxonmotor.com/ishop/article/article/226774.xml
Ive bought this motor few days ago, dont wanted to pay the extra OL Price! it run perfectly in my Sondek with OL Advanced Controller, needs only 3,39V for 33,3! The price was 118Eur incl. shipping to germany. The orginal DC200 cost ist near 300 Eur!"