Ah, I see! Instead I'm lazy and I never wanted to change enclosure. Also I think the Super Pro has one of its selling points (and is so cute to look at) in the tiny size.
Regarding the LT1364: yes, surely it makes a good pairing with the CS4398 (I say so by experience). I doubt that any of those you have bought can actually improve things; I have used the LME49720 but it was a change sideways, not exactly an improvement. If you want a more analytical, and airy sound (at the expense of naturalness), though, it's a good chip. Regarding the OP275, it could be nice (I used it elsewhere) but probably more suited for 24V; at 12V the LT1364 would probably kill it 🙂
BTW, thinking of it, I have the suspect that the small aluminium enclosure somehow works as a heatsink for the internal regulators which they're so close to...😕
Anyhow yes, it's a good idea to first try new coupling caps (in the same enclosure, I'd say) and a better power supply! You might also decide to stop there 🙂
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Super Pro DAC 707
A friend here on diyaudio sent me his modified super pro dac. The dac has output transformers instead of the regular opamps.
Following are my listening impressions. System is: Marantz CD63/Playstation, DAC, B4, Miniwatt tube amp, AN 8" full range.
The dac easily bettered my marantz cd-63. Both the usb (using foobar -> asio) and the coax (using the marantz as a transport) inputs had a much larger soundstage, pin-point and rock solid imaging. I wouldn't necessarily say more detail, but highly resolving. I must emphasize here, the size of the soundstage - it is massive. This is primarily due to the output transformers. I actually had to move a couple of feet back, as the soundstage expanded forward and backward from the speakers.
The instruments were simply locked into place, sounded more natural, with more breathing space. Also, timing and rhythm improved greatly.
Transients started earlier and finished late, very very smooth presentation. The greatest improvement though was at the ends of the FS. More bottom end, nice and punchy. The top end became crystal clear, sweet and natural.
But (you knew there was going to be a 'but'), the playstation still sounded more natural through the midrange. Especially the vocals, more liquid and believable on the PS. The DAC, I thought sounded a little thin and papery on voices, but only when directly compared to the PS.
My friend suggested using a battery supply, and that improved the midrange, but still not close to that of the PS1.
I could not hear a difference between the USB and coax, except the hugely more convenient option of using the computer as the source.
All in all, this is great value for money. It represents a sweeping improvement over the sound of the marantz/PS1 (bar the vocals on the PS). I will be ordering one soon.
A friend here on diyaudio sent me his modified super pro dac. The dac has output transformers instead of the regular opamps.
Following are my listening impressions. System is: Marantz CD63/Playstation, DAC, B4, Miniwatt tube amp, AN 8" full range.
The dac easily bettered my marantz cd-63. Both the usb (using foobar -> asio) and the coax (using the marantz as a transport) inputs had a much larger soundstage, pin-point and rock solid imaging. I wouldn't necessarily say more detail, but highly resolving. I must emphasize here, the size of the soundstage - it is massive. This is primarily due to the output transformers. I actually had to move a couple of feet back, as the soundstage expanded forward and backward from the speakers.
The instruments were simply locked into place, sounded more natural, with more breathing space. Also, timing and rhythm improved greatly.
Transients started earlier and finished late, very very smooth presentation. The greatest improvement though was at the ends of the FS. More bottom end, nice and punchy. The top end became crystal clear, sweet and natural.
But (you knew there was going to be a 'but'), the playstation still sounded more natural through the midrange. Especially the vocals, more liquid and believable on the PS. The DAC, I thought sounded a little thin and papery on voices, but only when directly compared to the PS.
My friend suggested using a battery supply, and that improved the midrange, but still not close to that of the PS1.
I could not hear a difference between the USB and coax, except the hugely more convenient option of using the computer as the source.
All in all, this is great value for money. It represents a sweeping improvement over the sound of the marantz/PS1 (bar the vocals on the PS). I will be ordering one soon.
Thanks! Now please try the OPA1611 and, say, Solen (or whatever you like) output caps, and compare to transformer output. I'll be eager to hear from you 🙂
P.S. The Super Pro notably improves on my (still as musical as ever) modified Cambridge Audio D300SE CD player, too.
P.S. The Super Pro notably improves on my (still as musical as ever) modified Cambridge Audio D300SE CD player, too.
Andrea, thank you for your suggestion. I'll try that once I get my own super pro....
Would you say that it will result in an improvement in the midrange?
Would you say that it will result in an improvement in the midrange?
I believe so...yes. My Super Pro has a very smooth midrange...and I'm powering it with the stock switching 12V 1A cheapo power supply!
Please note that I'm also using Rubycon ZL 470uF 25V + Rubycon YXH 47uF 25V on the opamp's power supply, all bypassed with a couple of Wima MKS02.
Finally, I've also put a Rubycon ZLH 100uF 16V on the DAC chip power supply.
P.S. Use the Solen's if you love a smooth and fluid, and rich midrange..
Please note that I'm also using Rubycon ZL 470uF 25V + Rubycon YXH 47uF 25V on the opamp's power supply, all bypassed with a couple of Wima MKS02.
Finally, I've also put a Rubycon ZLH 100uF 16V on the DAC chip power supply.
P.S. Use the Solen's if you love a smooth and fluid, and rich midrange..
The transformers are custom made by another member here. I think pano will be able to offer a more detailed answer.
Andrea, wouldn't going from transformers to opamps be a step back in terms of overall transparency?
Andrea, wouldn't going from transformers to opamps be a step back in terms of overall transparency?
BudP makes the transformers I use in DACs. I had a batch custom made to my specs.
I also like the Jensen transformers, very nice.
I also like the Jensen transformers, very nice.
Hi ra7,
I like the idea with the output transformers, but I guess it might be way out of budget to me. I think the goal with the super pro DAC is to achive a convincing performance without stretching the wallet ;-)
Right now I'm trying a linear power supply on the super pro. It looks like the attached pic (sorry 'bout the crappy paint drawing...). I like those kind of unregulated ps. The important thing here is the resistor R1, which forms together with C1 and C2 a CRC-stage in order to slightly drop the output voltage and to clean up and filter all the messy stuff that comes from the mains.
This is a simple but effective solution everybody can try out with some parts out of the parts bin and within a few minutes of time. The sound of the super pro improved with this supply. The sonic signature is a bit more fluid, a bit more open, highs are more pleasant and the soundstage has become even larger, in both wide and depth. It sounds a bit more natural and organic over the whole frequency range compared to the switched mode supply.
I know, everything here is "a bit", but in summary I consider it a nice improvement!
A few notes:
- R1 can be in the range from 8,2 ohm to 33 ohm, while less than 10 ohm has the tendency to be more noisy, and more than 20 ohm tends to sound less dynamic. So I guess 15 ohm just does the job well.
- The output voltage of 14VDC is no problem since the super pro has onboard regulators itself (the stock ps delivers 12VDC). But beware: 14VDC is a result of the combination of the transformer VA rating (30VA in my case), the value of R1 and R2, and the current the super pro draws from this supply.
This ps is quite oversized, so in the next days I will play around with some other capacitors of lower value (I have some Elnas and BC Components in the range of 1000uF to 2200uF), and I will discover the difference of using ordinary bridge rectifiers versus discrete shottkys.
It's really fun this little black box!
Martin
I like the idea with the output transformers, but I guess it might be way out of budget to me. I think the goal with the super pro DAC is to achive a convincing performance without stretching the wallet ;-)
Right now I'm trying a linear power supply on the super pro. It looks like the attached pic (sorry 'bout the crappy paint drawing...). I like those kind of unregulated ps. The important thing here is the resistor R1, which forms together with C1 and C2 a CRC-stage in order to slightly drop the output voltage and to clean up and filter all the messy stuff that comes from the mains.
This is a simple but effective solution everybody can try out with some parts out of the parts bin and within a few minutes of time. The sound of the super pro improved with this supply. The sonic signature is a bit more fluid, a bit more open, highs are more pleasant and the soundstage has become even larger, in both wide and depth. It sounds a bit more natural and organic over the whole frequency range compared to the switched mode supply.
I know, everything here is "a bit", but in summary I consider it a nice improvement!
A few notes:
- R1 can be in the range from 8,2 ohm to 33 ohm, while less than 10 ohm has the tendency to be more noisy, and more than 20 ohm tends to sound less dynamic. So I guess 15 ohm just does the job well.
- The output voltage of 14VDC is no problem since the super pro has onboard regulators itself (the stock ps delivers 12VDC). But beware: 14VDC is a result of the combination of the transformer VA rating (30VA in my case), the value of R1 and R2, and the current the super pro draws from this supply.
This ps is quite oversized, so in the next days I will play around with some other capacitors of lower value (I have some Elnas and BC Components in the range of 1000uF to 2200uF), and I will discover the difference of using ordinary bridge rectifiers versus discrete shottkys.
It's really fun this little black box!
Martin
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Thanks, that's an interesting idea! No need to regulate the supply voltage to the Super Pro, since by design it can be powered with a rather wider voltage range. Also 14V can give a little benefit over 12V (given also the internal protection series diode which causes a slight voltage drop) without going over the top.
BTW, little question... if I have a 12-0-12V 1A transformer and want to parallel the secondaries to get 12V and all the current available, I can, right? Just for being 100% sure 🙂
BTW, little question... if I have a 12-0-12V 1A transformer and want to parallel the secondaries to get 12V and all the current available, I can, right? Just for being 100% sure 🙂
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You can if it has 2 secondary windings. If it is just center tapped, then no.
You will need to know the phase of the secondary wires to connect them correctly.
Battery also works well as a power supply for these. You could probably even use a 6V battery if you replaced the voltage regulator. The stock DAC will run at 6V, but it clips on loud signals.
You will need to know the phase of the secondary wires to connect them correctly.
Battery also works well as a power supply for these. You could probably even use a 6V battery if you replaced the voltage regulator. The stock DAC will run at 6V, but it clips on loud signals.
Hi Andrea!
Like panomaniac said, with 12-0-12V it's not that easy. You would need a 12-0V + 12-0V transformer to parallel the secondaries (like I did, but it's not shown in the drawing).
Further more, a 1A transformer is not the best idea to make a power supply that beats the stock supply. Very small transformers have a quite bad self-regulating factor. Less VA rating means a higher value of what (I think) is called "open circuit voltage". That's why I wrote that the output voltage of 14VDC has also to do with the VA rating of the transformer I used (30VA).
But Andrea, I would advise you to wait a few days until I can make a final verdict about this kind of ps to power this DAC. I used a ps like this once when I build up a Non-Os DAC (Enhanced USB Monica from diyparadise). For this DAC this kind of ps was by far the best! But perhaps the oversampling-and-opamp-DAC-world is a different story. I will test some variations of this supply the next days and perhaps there is some modification needed. I will post ;-)
Martin
Like panomaniac said, with 12-0-12V it's not that easy. You would need a 12-0V + 12-0V transformer to parallel the secondaries (like I did, but it's not shown in the drawing).
Further more, a 1A transformer is not the best idea to make a power supply that beats the stock supply. Very small transformers have a quite bad self-regulating factor. Less VA rating means a higher value of what (I think) is called "open circuit voltage". That's why I wrote that the output voltage of 14VDC has also to do with the VA rating of the transformer I used (30VA).
But Andrea, I would advise you to wait a few days until I can make a final verdict about this kind of ps to power this DAC. I used a ps like this once when I build up a Non-Os DAC (Enhanced USB Monica from diyparadise). For this DAC this kind of ps was by far the best! But perhaps the oversampling-and-opamp-DAC-world is a different story. I will test some variations of this supply the next days and perhaps there is some modification needed. I will post ;-)
Martin
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Alright...thank you both very much! I suspected it wasn't doable with a center tapped secondary, but I was uncertain.
martinbls, well, thanks, but how about just using one of those commercially available linear regulated power supplies? I did use one formerly, a decent desktop-type universal power supply, rated 1A & set at 12V. It sounded a little better than the Super Pro's stock power supply: slightly more full bodied, and more fluid.
(While with my passive parts tweaks it doesn't seem like it's necessary) I might simply use one of those again...maybe adding a ferrite core on the wire close to the DAC as I like to do.
martinbls, well, thanks, but how about just using one of those commercially available linear regulated power supplies? I did use one formerly, a decent desktop-type universal power supply, rated 1A & set at 12V. It sounded a little better than the Super Pro's stock power supply: slightly more full bodied, and more fluid.
(While with my passive parts tweaks it doesn't seem like it's necessary) I might simply use one of those again...maybe adding a ferrite core on the wire close to the DAC as I like to do.
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Regarding powering the DAC with 6V... well, I had tried it, as I liked to use the good sounding (and rail-to-rail) OPA2350 which is CMOS and has a 7V absolute max. supply voltage spec.
It sounded good, thanks to that really musical opamp... but I doubt the two LM317 were working properly with that input voltage. Most probably the DAC chip was being underpowered.
Now, with the OPA1611, the OPA2350 is worth reserving for more adequate applications.
It sounded good, thanks to that really musical opamp... but I doubt the two LM317 were working properly with that input voltage. Most probably the DAC chip was being underpowered.
Now, with the OPA1611, the OPA2350 is worth reserving for more adequate applications.
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Has anybody taken a pic of the Super Pro's board? Would be really interested to see. (It seems to be one of the few such products where the distributors don't supply one....)
Thanks.
Thanks.
I will post a pic in a few days when mine comes. Incidentally, the DAC is currently available in the U.S. from CryoParts / Locus Design at a reasonable price (no affiliation):
CryoParts USB DAC
They sent a shipment confirmation within a few hours of my placing an order.
Hi Ecaroh!
Mine is still unopened because I am playing around with the power supply until now. When I build one which really make me smile I will open the DAC and go on with tweaking the parts inside.
A brief update regarding the ps: Recently I tried a very simple regulated ps with my 30VA toroid and a 7812 voltage regulator in a standard circuit, but with high quality parts. Just for fun, and to "bias" my hearing. The result: NO WAY!
In the first couple minutes I thought, well, nice! But after a few minutes more I realized that the sound was flat, 2-dimensional and lifeless. As I experienced with earlier projects, with a type 78XX regulator in line the sound becomes artificial and closed in.
I will stick to the unregulated one with the CRC-stage. Right now I use some capacitors of smaller value (1000uF each), snubbered with small film caps. Very nice so far!
Martin
Mine is still unopened because I am playing around with the power supply until now. When I build one which really make me smile I will open the DAC and go on with tweaking the parts inside.
A brief update regarding the ps: Recently I tried a very simple regulated ps with my 30VA toroid and a 7812 voltage regulator in a standard circuit, but with high quality parts. Just for fun, and to "bias" my hearing. The result: NO WAY!
In the first couple minutes I thought, well, nice! But after a few minutes more I realized that the sound was flat, 2-dimensional and lifeless. As I experienced with earlier projects, with a type 78XX regulator in line the sound becomes artificial and closed in.
I will stick to the unregulated one with the CRC-stage. Right now I use some capacitors of smaller value (1000uF each), snubbered with small film caps. Very nice so far!
Martin
BTW, is the stock power supply really so bad sounding to you? I think my Super Pro (however tweaked) sounds great with it. 🙂
I'd never use one of the supplied digital cables though 😱
I'd never use one of the supplied digital cables though 😱
Hi Andrea!
To be honest, I had some very strange problems with the stock supply regarding hum and buzz noises. The noise floor was clearly audible evey time. But the seller was willing to help out and made some suggestions about to isolate the ps from the mains earth. But since I want to use the pcb from the DAC with a self build ps in a totally new enclosure anyway, I decided not to bother with the stock supply.
To be honest, I had some very strange problems with the stock supply regarding hum and buzz noises. The noise floor was clearly audible evey time. But the seller was willing to help out and made some suggestions about to isolate the ps from the mains earth. But since I want to use the pcb from the DAC with a self build ps in a totally new enclosure anyway, I decided not to bother with the stock supply.
Myself, I've never had such problems with the stock power supply. Now with the OPA1611 (or also the former LT1028) the noise floor is extremely low, too; lower than that of my other DAC with a linear power supply, and say LME49710 opamps.
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