Smashing my head against a wall...

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#61
KarlD,

Sorry I need to amend my last post - ignore the suggestion of the Little Princess. Not because it isn't any good, but instead because it is too good. I hadn't taken a real close look at the ordering details and when I did I saw that the price was for just a single speaker not both of them. 😱 I knew those Eton drivers were going to sound outstanding but I hadn't taken a close enough look at the prices. My bad.

Let me add a couple more too. This has already been suggested but it's worth recommending a second time - Jeff's Kairos or Adelphos. The Satori is one of the best mid/woofers out there without spending an arm and a leg and it's still going to hit down to about 40Hz even though it is just a 2-way. Not sure about the price though for Europe?
Kairos (Pair)
Adelphos / Pair

Here's another 3-way SB kit too if you feel that is more your style - SB 240 - April 2013 - Loudspeakermagazine 2013 | Loudspeakerbuilding
 
#63
jReave said:
The Satori is one of the best mid/woofers out there without spending an arm and a leg

Here's another 3-way SB kit too if you feel that is more your style - SB 240 - April 2013 - Loudspeakermagazine 2013 | Loudspeakerbuilding
Click to expand...

Agreed, south of the Revelator and Excel/Nextel drivers the Satori are a lovely set of drivers.

The 3 way SB kit is similar to this...
3 Vejs SB Acoustics

and this...I think you had linked to this earlier.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/212738-sb-acoustics-3-ways.html

KarlD said:
Blimy there is such a lot of stuff to read and I am SUCH a slow reader!
Click to expand...

Karl, don't bother to read too much. Listen.

Your best bet is to take a trip to a few audio saloons and check out speakers from PMC, B&W, KEF, Focal, etc.. and see what you like and what you don't. We do NOT know how much bass you want or need. We do NOT know your exact tastes. Only YOU do. This is YOUR money, YOUR speaker and YOUR ears. Do it for you.

Once you have a good idea about what is available commercially then look at DIY. That is the route I took.

Youknowyou, The only "kit" I recommended is one I built AFTER listening to most commercial speakers that fit my budget (ElectroMotion, CM9, Q900, 836W) as well as 2x and 3x my budget such as the R900 and Electra 1038 and even 5x and 10x my budget aka Canton and Tidal respectively. The ElectroMotion would have been my choice but they don't work well in humid dusty climes (besides their narrow sweet spot would have been a compromise).

The one speaker I waited for but never turned up was the Tannoy Definition series.
 
#64
Those SB Acoustics 3 way kits look very nice indeed.

Three ways are just THE best sound in conventional speakers IMO. They have detail and attack and efficiency and good dispersion. Quite like an electrostatic in detail. Its all down to the specialist midrange unit being spared bass duties, resulting in low distortion.

These old Celestion Ditton 44 of mine still hack it:

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


The 12" bass might be a bit overwhelming in a small room however. Troels Gravesen does his take on this type of thing with an 8" bass, which might suit a smaller room better.
3-Way Classic

A two way is just never going to do the same thing.
 
#65
I have an opinion that speaker drivers used inside their "comfortable" range of operation perform well.
Following on from that, it's when you ask them to operate at the frequencies outside their comfortable range or ask them to play at SPL levels that are outside their comfortable range of operation that we hear them performing badly.

Some recent posts seem to be saying: select an affordable driver and use it for what it was designed for and is likely to give good results.
I agree.
 
#71
ive had these ditton speaker. Couldnt stand there sound. A dynaco a 25 walks all over it in term of musicality and sheer enjoyment.
system7 said:
Those SB Acoustics 3 way kits look very nice indeed.

Three ways are just THE best sound in conventional speakers IMO. They have detail and attack and efficiency and good dispersion. Quite like an electrostatic in detail. Its all down to the specialist midrange unit being spared bass duties, resulting in low distortion.

These old Celestion Ditton 44 of mine still hack it:

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


The 12" bass might be a bit overwhelming in a small room however. Troels Gravesen does his take on this type of thing with an 8" bass, which might suit a smaller room better.
3-Way Classic

A two way is just never going to do the same thing.
Click to expand...
 
#72
youknowyou said:
ive had these ditton speaker. Couldnt stand there sound. A dynaco a 25 walks all over it in term of musicality and sheer enjoyment.
Click to expand...

Perhaps Celestion always voiced their speakers rather bright? But this is a discussion of the strengths of a 3 way rather than that. Troels Gravesen employs the gentler BBC dip.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


These Chartwell PM400 were rather BBC too. Very polite. It possibly matters what you drive them with too. Valves have quite a different sound.

The Dynaco A25 is alive and well if that is your cup of tea: SEAS A26 Kit
 
#74
#75
Here's something interesting I just noticed, which KarlD might like! 🙂

The bass and treble drivers in the 3-Way Classic by Troels would work rather well in a two way as well.

H1471-08 CA22RNY
H0881-06 27TFFC

In fact Starre and Salas knocked up something like it and rather liked it: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/198369-tired2way-speaker-building-108.html#post3912265

Not a difficult crossover. It's quite normal to have a removeable front baffle too, if you want to leave yourself an easy upgrade option. 🙂
 
#77
system7 said:
Perhaps Celestion always voiced their speakers rather bright?
Click to expand...

system7 said:
Possibly an SB acoustics ring radiator tweeter too.
Click to expand...

system7 said:
Here's something interesting I just noticed, which KarlD might like! 🙂

The bass and treble drivers in the 3-Way Classic by Troels would work rather well in a two way as well.
Click to expand...

1. It is rather easy to have a toggle switch to tame the HF (if one needs to). I have used it. I prefer it to the HF and Mid pots found on speakers like the AR 2ax or JBL 4312 (both of which I happen to still have). Many recordings I listen to were done in sub-optimal conditions. In fact there is some sort of rule about great music is usually recorded poorly. 🙂 HF/Mid control allows such music to become listenable.

2. System 7, have you heard a ring radiator? I would listen to one before I buy one. I head a few commercial systems that employ one and did not care for them. We all have our preferences, for example I have had a fondness for ribbons ever since the old Panasonic 400 - see link NEW Pair Technics EAS 10TH400A Ribbon Leaf Tweeters 039 | eBay

3. Yes the woofer and tweeter can make a rather nice 8" 2 2way. Paper coned 8" 2 ways were common in the late 70s and early 80s. That reminds me of an old JBL L82 I used to have
http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical Sheet/JBL82 ts.pdf
 
#78
My Dad has a pair of Monitor Audio MA4 which is a bigish woofer/tweeter. Can't remember the size of the woofer but it makes for a very listenable speaker. Though I have never listened to anything like Bjork or Tool or Alicia Keys through them. Only things like Fleetwood Mac, Beatles and the Rolling Stones. Might be worth borrowing them from him for a listen.
 
#79
Apropos the Monitor Audio MA4, I auditioned to the similar two way Chartwell PM200 for some time, before buying the 3 way PM400 back in the day.

They all used the Isophon KK10 mylar tweeter with a modified aluminium plate.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


Along with bextrene or polypropylene 8" bass cone and a complex crossover to fix some anomolies in the bass driver. Unfortunately, no-one has ever rolled their sleeves up and had a good look at the MA4 filter, though I've wasted a lot of time trying to help people with that speaker.

All quite KEF or BBC really. Polite sound, if not exactly lively. 🙂
 
#80
For the imaging, detail, clarity and LF extension that you are after, I encourage you to look hard at the Amaroso which is going to have a superb high end and midrange and dig deeper than the Kairos. It looks to me like a really solid and well thought out design that will work well in a relatively small room. You may have to get the B&G's from the States (not 100% sure on availability in Europe) but they weigh less than a lb each so the shipping shouldn't be too high.

Here's a little bit more info on them - Construction info on my winning MWAF speakers, the Amaroso (long). If you want to read more opinions from people that have used the B&G drivers I can give you some more links but I don't want to overload you with too much info. 😉
 
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