Different eq L/R helps a little but still bass will play on the right side. Even two fullrange speakers like yours can't eliminate that. An extra wall/panel would help, but you should make it from bricks! A light construction will let bass go through. Acousic panel on back wall is good advice, but also right side wall should be "softened" to minimize mid-treble reflections.
So, just live with it until you move to new apartment/house! You are not alone with that problem, ideal acaustically symmetric positioning is rare delicacy!
So, just live with it until you move to new apartment/house! You are not alone with that problem, ideal acaustically symmetric positioning is rare delicacy!
My method (repeat for both midrange and woofer - since both are likely below the useful gating frequency of about ~ 200Hz with most rooms).
1. Take nearfield of the driver
2. Take nearfield of any ports
3. Sum the responses of 1 and 2. (speaker workshop can do this for you. It might be a simple "add" using or not using phase - I'm not too sure)
4. Take gated farfield of the driver
5. Generate a baffle step and diffraction response - using either FRD response blender spreadsheet, Edge or other BDS tool
6. Use Jeff Bagby'd FRD Response blender tool to combine near+port (combined nearfield) plus farfield response. The reason to use this tool - is Jeff's method applies baffle diffraction ripple and step (missing from nearfield) with the accurate measurement of the upper frequencies (far field) to get a single driver response (low to high frequency) AND extract minimum phase
Use the above curve in your XO simulation software - but remember as you are using extracted min phase - to enter the acoustic (driver) "Z" offset if you are using a flat baffle (and not aligning voice coil centres).
Then you have reliable FR data to model with.
I usually use the 100Hz point in the above derived curve as my overall system sensitivity and apply 3 - 4 BSC from woofer to mid transition and up. This can be checked when generating netwrok transfer functtion (either by your XO modeling program - or in speaker workshop - subtract network and driver response from driver only response).
1. Take nearfield of the driver
2. Take nearfield of any ports
3. Sum the responses of 1 and 2. (speaker workshop can do this for you. It might be a simple "add" using or not using phase - I'm not too sure)
4. Take gated farfield of the driver
5. Generate a baffle step and diffraction response - using either FRD response blender spreadsheet, Edge or other BDS tool
6. Use Jeff Bagby'd FRD Response blender tool to combine near+port (combined nearfield) plus farfield response. The reason to use this tool - is Jeff's method applies baffle diffraction ripple and step (missing from nearfield) with the accurate measurement of the upper frequencies (far field) to get a single driver response (low to high frequency) AND extract minimum phase
Use the above curve in your XO simulation software - but remember as you are using extracted min phase - to enter the acoustic (driver) "Z" offset if you are using a flat baffle (and not aligning voice coil centres).
Then you have reliable FR data to model with.
I usually use the 100Hz point in the above derived curve as my overall system sensitivity and apply 3 - 4 BSC from woofer to mid transition and up. This can be checked when generating netwrok transfer functtion (either by your XO modeling program - or in speaker workshop - subtract network and driver response from driver only response).
With regard to steps 2 and 3 in Dave's procedure: you need to scale the port's output by 20 log (port diamter/driver diameter) before summing it with the driver's output. IIRC in SpeakerWorkshop you enter the port and driver diameters and the program automatically does the calculation. I attached a paper by Jeff Bagby that might clear up any questions you have.
Jreave# & Juhazi#
Thanks for the input! Jreave, you are right, if I had the choice I would already have done it! Compromises have to be made for everyone to be happy and that is totally fine with me. I generally cannot really complain anyway 😀
The folding wall is actually a brilliant and totally doable idea! It might even be used to hide the spaghetti monster 😛
I suppose Juhazi is right about low frequencies though, but I guess it will improve imaging a bit anyway? At least it would be a fun experiment at some point!
The rear wall isn't really there. It is just three big windows. But i guess pulling the curtains over will help a bit? Diffusers are only for "higher" frequencies right?
The side wall will be covered mostly with pictures so they could be made as absorbents as well. Not sure if it is worth it (if I will have the time) before moving to something more permanent. 🙂
No doubt when I have a house I will do everything I can to improve the room acoustics!! 😀😀
Thanks for the input! Jreave, you are right, if I had the choice I would already have done it! Compromises have to be made for everyone to be happy and that is totally fine with me. I generally cannot really complain anyway 😀
The folding wall is actually a brilliant and totally doable idea! It might even be used to hide the spaghetti monster 😛
I suppose Juhazi is right about low frequencies though, but I guess it will improve imaging a bit anyway? At least it would be a fun experiment at some point!
The rear wall isn't really there. It is just three big windows. But i guess pulling the curtains over will help a bit? Diffusers are only for "higher" frequencies right?
The side wall will be covered mostly with pictures so they could be made as absorbents as well. Not sure if it is worth it (if I will have the time) before moving to something more permanent. 🙂
No doubt when I have a house I will do everything I can to improve the room acoustics!! 😀😀
Juhazi# I also tried different xo points for mid/woofer. Without still having had the time to do proper measurments on the bss-mid integration though.
I tried switching between 80, 150, 200, 250 and 300 Hz. All was done with LR4. 300 Hz does not work for this speaker! It sounds strange.. Bafflestep also starts at 317 Hz or so.
250 has something simillar to 300Hz but not as bad. Before i used 150, but i think 200 is better. It sure is better than 80. So I think for this construction I have to cross somewhere between 150 and 200 Hz.
While during the xo test i also tried to compare my LR4 to LR2 and Harsch. LR4 that i used before is surely not the best for mid-tweeter. I think my favorite is LR2, Harsch is close though. For woofer-mid i am even less sure about LR2 and Harsch. But again LR4 was the least appealing.
So thanks for your input! I now cross at 200 and 2000 with LR2's.
I tried switching between 80, 150, 200, 250 and 300 Hz. All was done with LR4. 300 Hz does not work for this speaker! It sounds strange.. Bafflestep also starts at 317 Hz or so.
250 has something simillar to 300Hz but not as bad. Before i used 150, but i think 200 is better. It sure is better than 80. So I think for this construction I have to cross somewhere between 150 and 200 Hz.
While during the xo test i also tried to compare my LR4 to LR2 and Harsch. LR4 that i used before is surely not the best for mid-tweeter. I think my favorite is LR2, Harsch is close though. For woofer-mid i am even less sure about LR2 and Harsch. But again LR4 was the least appealing.
So thanks for your input! I now cross at 200 and 2000 with LR2's.
DaveBullet#, Ernperkins#
I do not have ports, but I do use a aperiodic vent for mid. Does this have relevant output to measure it or should I just measure the mid-driver alone?
Step 6 sounds harry! xD
Will try you tips along with Juhazi's once i have the time for it!
Thanks!
I do not have ports, but I do use a aperiodic vent for mid. Does this have relevant output to measure it or should I just measure the mid-driver alone?
Step 6 sounds harry! xD
Will try you tips along with Juhazi's once i have the time for it!
Thanks!
Juhazi is absolutely right. The best scenario is that each sidewall is constructed of exactly the same material, thickness etc. But most of us have to live with less than perfect scenarios. For imaging and soundstaging, most of the info is in the timing of the higher frequencies so although a folding wall of some type won't make any difference to the lowest frequencies, it will for the higher stuff and you should therefore hear a difference at your listening position.
I ran across this guy a little while ago and thought he knew what he was talking about: YouTube
Well.. There are limits to how far I can/will go. I am no "true" HiFi enthusiast willing to build my home aorund my speakers.
BUT!! I really like good sound and ofcourse I will do what I can to get the best out of what I have!
Thanks for the tips though! Whenever I will have time for room acoustic projects I will surely try the wall and some absorbing images!
For now, status is this:
I still didn't do really hardcore measurments on the bass performannce, but it seems i got lucky with some listening position, 1 m and near field measurments.
I am currently VERY happy with the sound of this speaker! Clear mid and trebble with no T and S issues and no harsness whatsoever. The bass also now has some real punch and no boom! Impressive for the size of this speaker! 😀 😀 😀
I will leave the crossover as is for now and continue building the second speaker tomorrow!
BUT!! I really like good sound and ofcourse I will do what I can to get the best out of what I have!
Thanks for the tips though! Whenever I will have time for room acoustic projects I will surely try the wall and some absorbing images!
For now, status is this:
I still didn't do really hardcore measurments on the bass performannce, but it seems i got lucky with some listening position, 1 m and near field measurments.
I am currently VERY happy with the sound of this speaker! Clear mid and trebble with no T and S issues and no harsness whatsoever. The bass also now has some real punch and no boom! Impressive for the size of this speaker! 😀 😀 😀
I will leave the crossover as is for now and continue building the second speaker tomorrow!
Hello guys,
I need some help with this drivers: Omnes Audio W8-670Z.
I want to build a subwoofer with dual drivers in oposition, like in this project.
Can someone tell me if this loudspeaker is suitable for a close subwoofer with dual drivers?
I do not find the measurements of this speaker.
Lautsprecher Shop | Omnes Audio W8-670Z | Lautsprecher Selbstbau
Thank you !
I need some help with this drivers: Omnes Audio W8-670Z.
I want to build a subwoofer with dual drivers in oposition, like in this project.
Can someone tell me if this loudspeaker is suitable for a close subwoofer with dual drivers?
I do not find the measurements of this speaker.
Lautsprecher Shop | Omnes Audio W8-670Z | Lautsprecher Selbstbau
Thank you !
I want to use them in a 20 liters (aproximate) closed box with Hypex Fusion Amp plate.
My target is 30Hz-100Hz; I need F3 < 35Hz.
My target is 30Hz-100Hz; I need F3 < 35Hz.
https://www.oaudio.de/out/media/OA_W8_670Z_Datasheet.pdf
Nice long Xmax .... not so low Fs ....
Quite power hongry and not very high power handing
It of course depend on what kind of sound pressure you are after.
For sides, I would personally go for 2 x 8" vented .... and aim for 25 Hz ....
I would look at Dayton Ref subwoofer drivers instead ....
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I am very happy with my SB23MFCL45-4 in my small room. I can't speak to any other brand or model at this point. The last sub-woofer I did was in the early 1990's. I do have several different SB drivers of various sizes and price ranges. Every one of them seem to perform much better than anything else in their respective price ranges.
A few things to ask are how much SPL do you need and how low in frequency to you really need to go having high SPL? Sensitivity, X-max, power handling, etc. all come into play not to mention room size.
Maybe other members can give their opinions of other drivers you are considering; I think the SB might be a better choice but that is purely a guess on my part.
I can very highly recommend the ones I use (SB SW26DBAC76-8). They work absolutely amazing even in my tiny 19L cabinet. They beat some other SB woofers (not subwoofers) in large cabinets I have heard. They are really a well performing driver and I am a HUGE fan! 🙂
Although.. while this cabinet work, it does rely on eq. without DSP they will need a bigger box (I forgot to take the displacement of the woofers in the cabinet to account..). In my 19L they will also not exceed X-max, even at full 500 W (250 each) power. However, they play loud enough for me even with 125W and only a single speaker (2 drivers). I am still working on the second speaker.
Although.. while this cabinet work, it does rely on eq. without DSP they will need a bigger box (I forgot to take the displacement of the woofers in the cabinet to account..). In my 19L they will also not exceed X-max, even at full 500 W (250 each) power. However, they play loud enough for me even with 125W and only a single speaker (2 drivers). I am still working on the second speaker.
Yes SB23MFCL45-4 is another good choise maybe even better than the Dayton .... again go vented 2 x 8 inch fs around 25 Hz ... unbeatable 😉
Please take distortion at 1m, spl 95dB. Now all we see is room's ambient noise.
In nearfield it is impossible to use high enough spl, the mic starts to distort. At 1m response has some reflections too, but we don't look at them now! REW sets IR gating independently for distortion graph.
In nearfield it is impossible to use high enough spl, the mic starts to distort. At 1m response has some reflections too, but we don't look at them now! REW sets IR gating independently for distortion graph.
