Yes, basically any speaker needs a crossover, but a coaxial driver is still just a tweeter and woofer in one.
btw, stupid questions don't exist, so feel free to ask (and learn!) 🙂
Ok, maybe a bit more specific question. Do Sica coaxial speakers come with factory implemented passive (?) crossover? Can I just use that?
No they don't have a filter build in.
I am not sure if they sell some kind of kit or so.
The data sheet includes a crossover product/proposal on page 3:
https://sica.it/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Z002810.pdf
https://sica.it/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Z002810.pdf
Yes, the order code is "ZC02810", for example here:
https://www.sonoraspeakers.it/product/zc02810/
That would be a big disadvantage, because it would only fit to a specific baffle and enclosure. In fact that if course also is valid for the x-over mentioned above.
It’s not that hard. Soldering comes in handy, but even building a crossover on a piece of board, using solid wire connecting clips such as from Wago does a perfect job.
Interesting that the LS50 did bad. I have that one too.. and it definitely needs EQ to work neutrally - imo.
For me, KEF are the only coaxial, that mastered a larger VC midrange, so the tweeter can have a larger stationary surface to emanate from, making the response a ton better. But imo, this require a smooth countersunk design, where especially the dedicated midrange version from R3 and above excel.
I must admit though, that I had to make them active, since I find most of the passive constructions too ragged and 'coloured'.
Coax diy, is the first design I found to truly disappear, and let me focus on the sound, kinda forgetting where the speaker is.
For me, KEF are the only coaxial, that mastered a larger VC midrange, so the tweeter can have a larger stationary surface to emanate from, making the response a ton better. But imo, this require a smooth countersunk design, where especially the dedicated midrange version from R3 and above excel.
I must admit though, that I had to make them active, since I find most of the passive constructions too ragged and 'coloured'.
Coax diy, is the first design I found to truly disappear, and let me focus on the sound, kinda forgetting where the speaker is.
^I am sick of cables and multiple components, several switches and specific order in which they have to be turned on just to be able to play the music. That is the main reason i still stick to passive crossovers: i am one click away from playing music. I want my whole family to be able to play music, otherwise it looks somewhat selfish to me. Build expensive system for which i need to train people around me on how to use it. By that point my kids are going to play some music from their smartphones and be done with it (and smartphones sound like crap).
Is there a single component out there that has at least 4 channel dsp and 4 channel amp inside ? I would stay away from Crown SR amps, they measure dreadfully.
There are quite a few integrated streamer/dac/amp options nowadays (some even implement a dirac inside) for passive loudspeakers. What's with the other options ?
Is there a single component out there that has at least 4 channel dsp and 4 channel amp inside ? I would stay away from Crown SR amps, they measure dreadfully.
There are quite a few integrated streamer/dac/amp options nowadays (some even implement a dirac inside) for passive loudspeakers. What's with the other options ?
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^This is why I ears ago just went with a full fledged 8 channel pre-amp with DSP and 4 remote trigger outputs. One remote - one push, and everything just works 👍
But I get it. Still way too much HIFI, which is overly complicated, all the wrong places. I for example made my own cables, so I could control length and type - made it easier overall.
I'm not really sure what is out there - in detail. I stopped looking, mostly after I just got something that works. A little expensive and now closed down(Groundsound). But hey - I made it, and nothing yet compares - IMO 😎
If I had to redo it now. Maybe I would go for a set of the better KEF's, and take advantage of their linear nature, so that a mere 2 channel DSP correction could make them neutral - then with a pair of subs - since I've still never heard speakers play any deep bass with a physical emotion - without that extra surface area and lots of power - sprinkled with EQ.
But I get it. Still way too much HIFI, which is overly complicated, all the wrong places. I for example made my own cables, so I could control length and type - made it easier overall.
I'm not really sure what is out there - in detail. I stopped looking, mostly after I just got something that works. A little expensive and now closed down(Groundsound). But hey - I made it, and nothing yet compares - IMO 😎
If I had to redo it now. Maybe I would go for a set of the better KEF's, and take advantage of their linear nature, so that a mere 2 channel DSP correction could make them neutral - then with a pair of subs - since I've still never heard speakers play any deep bass with a physical emotion - without that extra surface area and lots of power - sprinkled with EQ.
I thought this would be some very useful information for those who're interested.
Still a mystery coax unit (sorry guys), but the only difference between the two is a single roll "rubber" surround (red) and triple roll surround (green).
Literally ALL other parts are exactly the same.
Added 3dB to the triple roll for reading clarity.
50dB scale.
I do have some off-axis information as well, but that will take a while to get ready.
Still a mystery coax unit (sorry guys), but the only difference between the two is a single roll "rubber" surround (red) and triple roll surround (green).
Literally ALL other parts are exactly the same.
Added 3dB to the triple roll for reading clarity.
50dB scale.
I do have some off-axis information as well, but that will take a while to get ready.
b_force: you changed Sica Coax to standard rubber surround? (The Sica Surround is actually rubber btw)
This is not that (same) Sica coax (as mentioned earlier in this thread)
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That was to be expected, the half roll rubber surround is a lot higher than the triple fold, which will be reducing the reflections and wave front bending. The dip at 17k isn't great but the linearity and easier handling are so much better. If you want to continue to experiment with the surround, you could try an inverse half roll and also foam surround which got very low losses while maintaining a much high inner damping. The downside is, ofc, the life expectancy of the surrounds are about 20-40 years, depending on the UV stability and UV light (daylight) exposure.
So...
I have SICA 5.5 C in my hands for couple of weeks now. It is in ~8L cardboard-foamboard BR box, glued with hot glue with tuning around ~60Hz. Crossover done with EQ APO, Still cannot make a good measurements, as my mic is possibly with very rising response (if you can say that). Will have another one soon. But overall subjective impressions:
The nice:
-It is visually really nice driver - Italians are good at this
-Membrane is paper, but looks like it is more monolithic than fiber based. It is still nice. It looks nice too
-Overall build impression is positive
-Yes, it is a hi-fi level driver: detailed, capricious - you can hear small EQ and x-over point adjustments, tweeter is at least mediocre or better to my ears
-Pretty good value for 100EUR
-It is in the level when you can hear bad recording and/or mastering or heavy compression codec
The not nice (baaaaad):
-Timbre is... more similar to the plastic or metal membrane type, it does not sound like paper speaker. It is a taste thing, but... This is not the one I expected. It is not smoothing type - more to the energetic and demanding attention
-Driver response is not linear, need many adjustments, it is very hard even with EQ to get the neutral sound.
The ugly:
-It has no bass in current box. Tried with 0 stuffing, 40g, 100g. The same. It is totally absolutely dead in sub 200Hz. No depth, no energy. Positive - no boominess too. Just heavy EQ in 5dB+ range helps. I have many 3-4inch fullrange drivers which have more energy in sub 200Hz range, even if they cannot go that deep. Will try a little smaller box and a little bigger. But this is hard to believe, as it has enough Sd and Fs is pretty low. Do not understand me wrong: it has some bass, but it is not in the amount you expect from 5 inch driver.
Disclaimer: this is subjective opinion, YMMV.
I have SICA 5.5 C in my hands for couple of weeks now. It is in ~8L cardboard-foamboard BR box, glued with hot glue with tuning around ~60Hz. Crossover done with EQ APO, Still cannot make a good measurements, as my mic is possibly with very rising response (if you can say that). Will have another one soon. But overall subjective impressions:
The nice:
-It is visually really nice driver - Italians are good at this
-Membrane is paper, but looks like it is more monolithic than fiber based. It is still nice. It looks nice too
-Overall build impression is positive
-Yes, it is a hi-fi level driver: detailed, capricious - you can hear small EQ and x-over point adjustments, tweeter is at least mediocre or better to my ears
-Pretty good value for 100EUR
-It is in the level when you can hear bad recording and/or mastering or heavy compression codec
The not nice (baaaaad):
-Timbre is... more similar to the plastic or metal membrane type, it does not sound like paper speaker. It is a taste thing, but... This is not the one I expected. It is not smoothing type - more to the energetic and demanding attention
-Driver response is not linear, need many adjustments, it is very hard even with EQ to get the neutral sound.
The ugly:
-It has no bass in current box. Tried with 0 stuffing, 40g, 100g. The same. It is totally absolutely dead in sub 200Hz. No depth, no energy. Positive - no boominess too. Just heavy EQ in 5dB+ range helps. I have many 3-4inch fullrange drivers which have more energy in sub 200Hz range, even if they cannot go that deep. Will try a little smaller box and a little bigger. But this is hard to believe, as it has enough Sd and Fs is pretty low. Do not understand me wrong: it has some bass, but it is not in the amount you expect from 5 inch driver.
Disclaimer: this is subjective opinion, YMMV.