I use the Hanze HiFi springs on my MKII and it was an immediately noticeable difference. (Something on the order of 10dB?)
Hello,
Could you describe in more detail the "noticeable difference" in what you hear other than the reduction of audible motor noise?
Thanks,
David
Could you describe in more detail the "noticeable difference" in what you hear other than the reduction of audible motor noise?
Thanks,
David
That's all of it in a nutshell, less motor noise coupled into the rest of the table and platter. Subtly noticeable and obviously measurable on unmodulated grooves.
Dear music lovers,
I wonder what first upgrade to do with my TD124MKII (heavy iron platter) & SME 3009II impr. & Benz Gold
The 124 is like new and checked by a specialist. A complete rebuild seems him not necessary.
But the turntable doesn't sound for me (musician) as good as a few tables heard before. That were TD124 & SPU, Expensive Linn LP12 & Benz Ace, Fat Bob & SME IV & Jan Allaerts.
What upgrade do you advise to start with?
Thanks a lot for your help.
With kind regards.
Wil
I wonder what first upgrade to do with my TD124MKII (heavy iron platter) & SME 3009II impr. & Benz Gold
The 124 is like new and checked by a specialist. A complete rebuild seems him not necessary.
But the turntable doesn't sound for me (musician) as good as a few tables heard before. That were TD124 & SPU, Expensive Linn LP12 & Benz Ace, Fat Bob & SME IV & Jan Allaerts.
What upgrade do you advise to start with?
Thanks a lot for your help.
With kind regards.
Wil
If the table is in as good shape as you think I would start by replacing the arm, and installing in a good plinth. I am assuming the technician is knowledgeable and knows the table well.
I am running a Schick on one, and a cloned SME 3012 on the other. (In fact listening to the one with the clone right now)
I would recommend either the Schick 12" based on direct personal experience*, but there is a new player on the block I've not yet tried that is supposed to be good here: Audio Creative Shop Audio-Creative GrooveMaster - Audio Creative Shop
I have three SPUs and a Benz Micro Ebony H, I love the SPU collectively, and the Benz which I find singularly uninvolving on an SME 3009 Series II will go to a new home sometime soon.
* Noting also that Schick has released a 9" version quite recently.
I run an SPU A95 on the Schick which is installed on my TD-124 MKII..
I am running a Schick on one, and a cloned SME 3012 on the other. (In fact listening to the one with the clone right now)
I would recommend either the Schick 12" based on direct personal experience*, but there is a new player on the block I've not yet tried that is supposed to be good here: Audio Creative Shop Audio-Creative GrooveMaster - Audio Creative Shop
I have three SPUs and a Benz Micro Ebony H, I love the SPU collectively, and the Benz which I find singularly uninvolving on an SME 3009 Series II will go to a new home sometime soon.
* Noting also that Schick has released a 9" version quite recently.
I run an SPU A95 on the Schick which is installed on my TD-124 MKII..
Thanks a lot for your quick answer.
I read this topic until page 80 Today I go on with it.
The plinth is from massive cherry wood. At the bottom it's open. What is better as much wood as possible or just wood "around"?
The new dutch Creative Audio arm is made only 60 miles from my home. So it's easy to take a look there and I will.
I read it's all about matching.
My goal is to get the feeling the musicians are playing in my room. I work every day with live acoustic instruments. The digital part does this already. Special with high ress recordings.
Regards.
Wil
E50 Motor Power Consumption
This is with the tables in question fully warmed up, power consumption seems to be slightly higher when cold.
The following values are for a fairly late original series TD-124:
120mA @ 110Vrms, 60Hz
Real power: 9.1W
Apparent power: 14.1VA
Power Factor: 0.65
The following values are for a late TD-124 MKII (the one featured in this thread):
110mA @ 111Vrms, 60Hz
Real power: 8.2W
Apparent power: 13.0VA
Power Factor: 0.62
Edit: 120mA @ 117Vrms, 60Hz
Real power: 8.9W
Apparent power: 14.1VA
Power factor: 0.62
In both cases I used my recently completed sine source to power the table in question.
The meter in question has relatively limited resolution, the output voltage probably differs by a couple of hundred mVrms at most between the two cases, but due to round off error the meter reports a full volt of difference. (There is significant DCR in the step up transformer windings of the source and they are not inside the feedback loop.)
More details here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/anal...ource-induction-motor-powered-turntables.html
This is with the tables in question fully warmed up, power consumption seems to be slightly higher when cold.
The following values are for a fairly late original series TD-124:
120mA @ 110Vrms, 60Hz
Real power: 9.1W
Apparent power: 14.1VA
Power Factor: 0.65
The following values are for a late TD-124 MKII (the one featured in this thread):
110mA @ 111Vrms, 60Hz
Real power: 8.2W
Apparent power: 13.0VA
Power Factor: 0.62
Edit: 120mA @ 117Vrms, 60Hz
Real power: 8.9W
Apparent power: 14.1VA
Power factor: 0.62
In both cases I used my recently completed sine source to power the table in question.
The meter in question has relatively limited resolution, the output voltage probably differs by a couple of hundred mVrms at most between the two cases, but due to round off error the meter reports a full volt of difference. (There is significant DCR in the step up transformer windings of the source and they are not inside the feedback loop.)
More details here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/anal...ource-induction-motor-powered-turntables.html
Attachments
I like heavy plinths, mine are slate and set up so that I can interleave different materials between the slate if I wanted to. (I haven't so far) In the case of mine there are 4 pieces, the top two are cut according to the OEM template, and the bottom two are cut to simply clear the components so more material is left in place. The table and plinth together weigh in at about 42 Kg and sit on heavy synthetic rubber corks from the local home center.
I would check out that arm as it seems a reasonable alternative to more expensive arms. I am not convinced despite the commentary that the bearings are as refined as the Schick, but given it costs significantly less I would suspect it offers a good performance/value proposition.
This evening I cranked the voltage up on the new regenerator to 117V and readjusted the eddy current brake on the MKII which now has its own dedicated power source. I just prefer it a little more juiced up.. lol
I also have been having extreme difficulty seeing the strobe, and it occurred to me that neither the mirror nor plastic lens had been cleaned in close to 50yrs. Yeah, cleaning both made things a lot better. 🙂
I also have been having extreme difficulty seeing the strobe, and it occurred to me that neither the mirror nor plastic lens had been cleaned in close to 50yrs. Yeah, cleaning both made things a lot better. 🙂
What's that widgimigingy the stylus is parked on in Volken's first pic (post 1320 above)?
Nice colour, by the way!
Nice colour, by the way!
In English it translates as a "rumble measuring coupler".. It was a little widget that Thorens made in order to be able to measure the residual rumble when servicing one of these TT. They're quite rare these days. I don't have one, but I would not be comfortable using it with any of my SPUs anyway. (I do have cheaper cartridges..lol)
So the idea is you run the table, the brass base turns, the armature pivots on the point and the vibration is coupled into the stylus so you can measure it at the cart's output?
Is there somewhere a list with the sound characters of cartridges?
Of course for use on a TD124.
Of course for use on a TD124.
Not that I am aware of..
What I can say is I really like the combination of Schick or SME 3012 (or clone 3012) arms with any number of different Ortofon SPUs. I would expect either of the Ortofon 12" arms to be equally good.
The Denon DL-103 in a new body and on a heavy arm also seems quite synergistic.. The DL-103SA is another good if virtually unobtainable choice.
The very early Shure M3D may be another good choice on a heavy arm. (I was shocked at how good it was with an OEM N3D stylus on another table)
What I can say is I really like the combination of Schick or SME 3012 (or clone 3012) arms with any number of different Ortofon SPUs. I would expect either of the Ortofon 12" arms to be equally good.
The Denon DL-103 in a new body and on a heavy arm also seems quite synergistic.. The DL-103SA is another good if virtually unobtainable choice.
The very early Shure M3D may be another good choice on a heavy arm. (I was shocked at how good it was with an OEM N3D stylus on another table)
Thanks,
Next week I hope to hear the differences between a Benz Ace, Benz Glider, Dynavector 17D, Ortofon SPU and a Lyra D. I still doubt what first upgrade to do: the arm or the cartridge.
I read also a lot of positive things about the Jelco 750 and the Audiomods as an improvement of my 3009 II i.
You might be surprised!
There are 3 things to know about TD124's. The motor has a hole at the bottom to get oil in. Whatever you do get some SAE 30 or whatever in. You might see green oil coming out. If you do and the motor is OK it was a minute to midnight for that motor. Motorcars oil less good than simple oils. Do not take the motor apart as you might not get it back as it should be. Do not over tighten it.
Idler if hard can be restored by watching TV and spending 30 minutes rotating it in a cloth soaked with alcohol. Normally alcohol is a no-no. For an otherwise useless idler it is worth a try. A finger test says if the idler is correct. It should be hard to stop the platter.
The belt if loose or non Thorens part can spoil the turntable. Apart from Garrard 301/401 the TD124 has few rivals. My old one is in the Hi Fi World back pages.
Some TD124 have iron platters. This can be a problem with some PU's.
Loricraft Audio has bulbs if asked very very nicely ( they may be 230 V only ) . Send a jiffy bag with your name on as that speeds Terry up. Often the bulb is OK and it's other things wrong. The mirror can be made from a cheap hand mirror cut up.
Kevin has already said most of what I wanted to say: I also think the SME arm, particularly the 'improved' version, is not as good as it should be. I am currently using the SME M2-12r with Ortofon SPUs (Gold, 85 and 90 anniversary) while I wait for Thomas Schick to finish an arm for me. I ordered it this spring, so I am hopeful to have it soonish. The Creative Audio arm looks very interesting and certainly worth a listen, but like the Schick it looks like there will be some waiting time before you can get it.
I have also purchased the Schopper non-magnetic platter which has resulted in a few measurable changes (particularly a surprising increase in the resonant frequency of the arm, from 8-9 Hz to 12 Hz) and (I think) a 'higher ride' (i.e. greater distance from the platter to the underside of the SPU), but little audible difference.
230V neon lamps are required (33K series resistor) as the lamp operates off of the 200 - 250V tap so for tables running on 120V the motor windings also provide a step up for the neon lamp.
I've rebuilt lots of these motors including replacing bearings with new ones; as long as I am patient (not always a given) the results are very good.
Motor lubricant should be 20 - 22 weight SAE non detergent oil, I use 3-in-1 20 SAE electric motor oil.
I am currently using 30 wt SAE non detergent motor oil in the main bearings of my turntables. I am thinking of changing back to 20 wt before the onset of winter. My man cave is not warm.
I have found (as have others) that soaking hard idlers in hot water with a non-detergent dish soap works pretty well. I use alcohol only to clean up the occasional accident. (Oil on idler)
I've rebuilt lots of these motors including replacing bearings with new ones; as long as I am patient (not always a given) the results are very good.
Motor lubricant should be 20 - 22 weight SAE non detergent oil, I use 3-in-1 20 SAE electric motor oil.
I am currently using 30 wt SAE non detergent motor oil in the main bearings of my turntables. I am thinking of changing back to 20 wt before the onset of winter. My man cave is not warm.
I have found (as have others) that soaking hard idlers in hot water with a non-detergent dish soap works pretty well. I use alcohol only to clean up the occasional accident. (Oil on idler)
I've not found the SME 3009 Series II (unimproved) even with supplemental counter weight to be a match made in heaven with any SPU I've tried, not terrible, but not near the best I have heard from an SPU on even the same table with a different arm. Better than the improved, but IMO just an OK arm in general.
eBay seller Keeper Darren's SE 3012 clone arm kit (combined with a bunch of spare 3009 parts I had) was a lot of fun to put together and seems to perform very similarly to the Series II 3012 I serviced for a friend a few years ago. I like the clone a lot.
eBay seller Keeper Darren's SE 3012 clone arm kit (combined with a bunch of spare 3009 parts I had) was a lot of fun to put together and seems to perform very similarly to the Series II 3012 I serviced for a friend a few years ago. I like the clone a lot.