rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool

[fluid]

The red line is the last generated filter, the blue line is the current filter you are editing. He has created a low pass first and then switched to a high pass setting.

 

[Viper_user]

Fluid can you give a link how to get more pass bands in, i only get my blue going. 🙂
Never mind, i found it, i had to click generate to open a new band.

 

[fluid]

If you want to visualize them or have more pass bands then make the filters as wav files and import them to REW where you can have as many on the screen as you like 🙂

 

[gin8330]

Hello everyone

have downloaded " SwissBear, 2017: REW auto EQ + rePhase " tutorial
Have to ask for help to understand that tutorial from page 6...
Sequence of the tutorial go like this:
1. Measure speakers several points of measuring, get "average" measurement in to REW .
Apply - Control window -"time alignment" and and use the ‘Vector Average’. That is OK
Question: Is the same to use -All SPL- Average responses contra to use the ‘Vector Average’ ?
2. Export "average" measurement as a txt file to rePhase. File-Export- Export measurement as a tekst. That is OK
3. Apply EQ corrections to "average" measurement and result export as *. xml file ,to be imported to re Phase. That is OK
4. Import 2. and 3. to rePhase and let program generate *.bin file .That is OK
5. Open "average" measurement in REW and import *.bin file. File-Import- Import impulse response. REW do not import *.bin file for me.
6. "average" measurement in REW and added *.bin file ,go to Controls-measurement actions-excess phase version and apply it. REW should be able to generate txt file witch should be used by re Phase..... How to do that ?
7. In rePhase with imported "average" measurement + EQ corrections filter in *. xml file form imported to import one more txt file with
"excess phase version" correction.
Did all that I have understood right ?
Thank you in advance

 

[fluid]

Question: Is the same to use -All SPL- Average responses contra to use the ‘Vector Average’ ?

No Average the responses is a basic frequency average with no phase information. A Vector average is an average of the impulse responses.

5. Open "average" measurement in REW and import *.bin file. File-Import- Import impulse response. REW do not import *.bin file for me.

A .bin file will not work with REW, to import it to REW you need to export it as a wav file.

6. "average" measurement in REW and added *.bin file ,go to Controls-measurement actions-excess phase version and apply it. REW should be able to generate txt file witch should be used by re Phase..... How to do that ?
7. In rePhase with imported "average" measurement + EQ corrections filter in *. xml file form imported to import one more txt file with
"excess phase version" correction.
Did all that I have understood right ?
Thank you in advance

There is no need to export the EQ to rephase and then back in to REW.

When you have created the average correction PEQ filter in REW all you need to do is export the filters impulse response as a wav file in REW. Import that back in and convolve it with the averaged measurement by using A*B and adjusting the level back to where it should be. You can then go on to export the excess phase as text to fiddle with in rephase.

 

[gin8330]

Thank you Fluid, looks like " SwissBear, 2017: REW auto EQ + rePhase "tutorial should be rewritten.Will follow your guide lines .
P.S. Funny coincident at the time you answer to my post ,I was reading your thread Full Range TC9 Line Array CNC Cabinet...

 

[fluid]

There are a few different versions of that tutorial floating around and it does seem to cause some confusion. A lot of people who are very new at measuring and using the programs seem to be attracted to it perhaps due to the step by step nature and screenshots.

I hope you enjoy my line array thread lots of REW and DSP in there but it has become quite long..

 

[gin8330]

. A lot of people who are very new at measuring and using the programs seem to be attracted to it perhaps due to the step by step nature and screenshots.

Absolutely-not everyone is acoustical engineer and such tools like REW or rePhase just must be mastered using active speaker system.

.
I hope you enjoy my line array thread lots of REW and DSP in there but it has become quite long..

Still reading🙂 you done fantastic job ,congratulations ..sincerely happy for you.
At same point would like to ask you about difference between your line array and LX521, Orion listening impressions.
At same point would like to build a CBT array by D.B.(Don) Keele, Jr..

 

[fluid]

Reading this thread all the way though would be very educational, it has covered a lot of ground 🙂

You can skip to here for most of my thoughts on the differences
Full Range TC9 Line Array CNC Cabinet

 

[gin8330]

When you have created the average correction PEQ filter in REW all you need to do is export the filters impulse response as a wav file in REW.

I can export impulse response to *.wav file


But I can`t export impulse response with EQ corrected 😕


My plan is to redo " how to produce a correction impulse in rePhase for dummies" tutorial..
When problem with *.wav file import/ export will be solved chapter 2 in pdf file must be rewritten. Right know in pdf is how to i was doing up to now for producing *.bin file for Minidsp 2x4 HD.

 

[gin8330]

When problem with *.wav file import/ export will be solved chapter 2 in pdf file must be rewritten.

Sorry,chapter 3-old mans mistake ...🙄

 

[fluid]

I can export impulse response to *.wav file


But I can`t export impulse response with EQ corrected 😕

Go three options down on the list to export filters impulse response. For that to work you must have selected a measurement with EQ added in REW. That option will then export the filters impulse response.

To get the combined response of filter and measurement you need to convolve them together. Import the filter response back into REW as a measurement.

In the All SPL tab use A*B, (filter and measurement) then adjust the level back to where it should be as it may well be too high from the multiplication.

 

[gin8330]

Thank you fluid for patience 🙂
Let me get wright...
we must have one file "Vector average.mdat" with out EQ corrections and the other one " "Vector average with EQ.mdat",right ?

For that to work you must have selected a measurement with EQ added in REW

There I can see two options:
1. import EQ corection filter to in my case MiniDsp 2x4 HD and make one more measurement in REW.
2. to mess up with in rePhase and from there export measurment with EQ correction to REW.

Go three options down on the list to export filters impulse response.

Understood..

To get the combined response of filter and measurement you need to convolve them together. Import the filter response back into REW as a measurement.
In the All SPL tab use A*B, (filter and measurement) then adjust the level back to where it should be as it may well be too high from the multiplication.

That action is in a future🙂 but understood.

 

[fluid]

Let me get wright...
we must have one file "Vector average.mdat" with out EQ corrections and the other one " "Vector average with EQ.mdat",right ?


There I can see two options:
1. import EQ corection filter to in my case MiniDsp 2x4 HD and make one more measurement in REW.
2. to mess up with in rePhase and from there export measurment with EQ correction to REW.

An mdat is a group of measurements you don't have to have separate mdats for this unless you want to.

Take all the measurements you want, time align and vector average to a single response. This is the response that is equalized. The equalization filter can be exported as a wav file as explained for further processing in REW or you can generate that as a rephase filter and load it into your minidsp.

If you do it all in REW the measurements will be in the same place and any phase changes will be based on the average. If you load it in to your minidsp and measure again you have two options. Take all the average measurements again (and probably get a slightly different response) or just choose one single point to measure and adjust the phase to.

 

[gin8330]

If you load it in to your minidsp and measure again you have two options. Take all the average measurements again (and probably get a slightly different response) or just choose one single point to measure and adjust the phase to.

That one move defiantly would like to avoid.

If you do it all in REW the measurements will be in the same place and any phase changes will be based on the average..

This would like to be a way to do it.

An mdat is a group of measurements you don't have to have separate mdats for this unless you want to.

I want to do as simple as possible with out complications and do with out doing in software unnecessary moves.

Take all the measurements you want, time align and vector average to a single response. This is the response that is equalized.

With this process is no problem at all. And that file I call "Vector average.mdat" for clarity reasons.

The equalization filter can be exported as a wav file as explained for further processing in REW

This one is a bugger 😡 there is a problem.
I can export "Vector average.mdat" as a wav -no problem.Picture in post #3133. The problem is to get wav file for generated equalization filter and import it back to REW ( convolve them together)with "Vector average.mdat" loaded (I believe that should be normal presage).
Lets explore this one step by step:

1.Geting wav file for generated equalization filter.
"Vector average.mdat" loaded in to the REW. Push "EQ" tab ( that must be done with out it filter can`t be generated). Picture 1.
2. We in a "EQ" and we generated our desirable filter. Know is just a matter to export that filter as a Wav file . Witch later must be imported back to REW .
Picture 2
And at this point I can´t find way in "EQ filters" export generated filter to Wav file.



" SwissBear, 2017: REW auto EQ + rePhase " tutorial page 5 suggest :
"Vector average.mdat"measurement and generated desirable filter -import to rePhase. Picture3
That is fine and works well. Lets ignore mistakes made in that tutorial over import and export (not explained probably) presage .

A question is:
How from rePhase export format in order REW to understand.

 

[fluid]

And at this point I can´t find way in "EQ filters" export generated filter to Wav file.

Because that is not where you export it from 🙂 Go back to the main measurement screen highlight your EQ'd measurement and choose File>Export>Export filters impulse response as wav

A question is:
How from rePhase export format in order REW to understand.

Set the output as 32 bit IEEE wav, should give you the same as above.

 

[gin8330]

Thank you Fluid🙂

Because that is not where you export it from 🙂 Go back to the main measurement screen highlight your EQ'd measurement and choose File>Export>Export filters impulse response as wav

Worked !!!🙂
Sequence of action was wrong:
1. "Vector average.mdat" in to the REW---> "EQ filters" generate desirable filter "EQ filters"---> go back main window and then choose File>Export>Export filters impulse response as wav.

Set the output as 32 bit IEEE mono wav, should give you the same as above.

Worked !!!🙂 Result is in a picture. Those graphs are slightly different from rePhase Wav.

In the All SPL tab use A*B, (filter and measurement) then adjust the level back to where it should be as it may well be too high from the multiplication.

Know working on it🙂...lets see how it go.

 

[fluid]

Worked !!!🙂 Result is in a picture. Those graphs are slightly different from rePhase Wav.

That will be because the rephase filter was created with a limited number of taps and the filter doesn't have enough resolution at low frequencies for it to be the same. The REW filter won't have that restriction.

The way around it is to use the MiniDSP's PEQ on top of the FIR. Probably a simpler way would just be to use REW set to MiniDSP and transfer the EQ's into it manually. Most of your EQ seems to be at lower frequencies which a tap limited FIR will struggle with. You can still do do the excess phase correction as an FIR if you want to as a separate stage.

 

[gin8330]

That will be because the rephase filter was created with a limited number of taps and the filter doesn't have enough resolution at low frequencies for it to be the same. The REW filter won't have that restriction. .

Thank you for it-golden peace of information 🙂

The way around it is to use the MiniDSP's PEQ on top of the FIR.

I was using such method all the time.

Probably a simpler way would just be to use REW set to MiniDSP and transfer the EQ's into it manually.

No needed to,because REW will let save filter settings in a text format and that txt file simply import to MiniDSP --> Outputs-->PEQ --> Avance-->import

Most of your EQ seems to be at lower frequencies..

Just using woofer measurement for example sake..just same file to work with 🙂

You can still do do the excess phase correction as an FIR if you want to as a separate stage.

I was imagining from that "Bear"tutorial as be able to do "excess phase correction" in a REW as a next step.
Would`t know what to do with all that if finish stage will be at #3137.

 

[gin8330]

Just for tutorials sake there will repeat my self:
1. Export filters impulse response as wav.
"Vector average.mdat" in to the REW---> "EQ filters" generate desirable filter "EQ filters"---> go back main window and then choose File>Export>Export filters impulse response as wav.
Picture 1
2. Import wav file.
Main REW window " All SPL". Controls--> File--> Import --> Import impulse response.
3.Trace Arithmetic.
Main REW window " All SPL". Controls--> Trace Arithmetic--> A+B --> Generate . Result "A+B .mdat" file.
Picture2
4.Excess phase correction.
Main REW window " All SPL". Controls--> Measurement actions --> choose A+B --> Excess phase version. Result "A+B-EP".mdat file .
Picture 3and 4
5.Finalization.
From "Swiss bear" tutorials :
" 4. Correction finalization
Once you have finalized the phase correction, you can import the initial averaged measurement in rePhase and apply the REW filters." 😕

Main REW window. Choose "A+B-EP".mdat. File--> Export -->Export measurement as text,"A+B-EP.txt".
Import "A+B-EP.txt" to rePhase.
Picture 5.


What is a next step ?
Save as "32 bit IEEE mono wav" from rePhase and that wav file again import to REW and apply to "Vector average.mdat"?
Or just export this file with corrections as a *.bin file and use it in miniDsp ?