For your next 12" midbass + horn speaker build...
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The Faital HF108 and BMS 4552 would be my choice... for the lower 1000-1400Hz Xover frequencies required by 12" - 15" midbass using light-load horns like SEOS, H290C, QSC.
The plastic diaphragm Faital HF108 uses a NdFeB magnet for 2.2T with a very shallow phase plug producing conical 31-degree(full-angle) exit.
The BMS 4552 has a unique annular plastic ring radiator diaphragm which avoids many resonant modes. With a path length of 5.1cm and 24-degree exit angle the curved wavefront launch from this patented design helps conical and tractrix horns improve coherence (arrival time smear). Versatile.
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The 18Sound NSD1095N would be my choice... for 1.6kHz and above. The 27 exit angle is designed for the 18Sound XT1086 horn. The NSD1095N uses a TiN diaphragm for high-detail treble with reduced Ti resonances.
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Ok, considering the low price and the excellent feedback on the Typphany DFM-2535R00-08, I have one on order and on the way, should be here for the weekend, I'll post impressions once I can compare the two drivers.
Thanks for the input everyone!
Javad
Thanks for the input everyone!
Javad
Is there a horn for this Tymphany CD ? Or at least a shape of horn than the driver datas would like ?
(to rephrase it : Seos : universal horn or have best to be used with the compression designed by the SIYSoundGroup ?)
(to rephrase it : Seos : universal horn or have best to be used with the compression designed by the SIYSoundGroup ?)
Hi LineSource, is it a choice after listened those 3 drivers in a similar horn ?
There were very smooth plots taken of that driver made on the PRV QSC waveguide clone that is on clearance at Parts Express -- https://www.parts-express.com/prv-audio-wg35-25-b-1-90-x-60-abs-waveguide-2-bolt--294-2892
curves at: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/f...on-driver-from-peerless?p=1283716#post1283716
curves at: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/f...on-driver-from-peerless?p=1283716#post1283716
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Quick update regarding the "harshness" comment that illicited so much reaction =)
In my original comments I specifically said I heard it on Kelly Clarkson's Piece by Piece song, over the past week I've played that track on 4 different speakers and I got ahold of 3 different high quality "open back" headphones as well, lo and behold it's the recording and I hear that un-natural graininess in her voice on everything I've listened to. I can only assume since it was recorded live on American Idol the mastering and acoustics weren't ideal.
I'm really surprised nobody suggested that it could have been in the recording, vs. immediately jumping to conclusions about the cross over, etc.
I now have a set of nice Beyerdynamic and Sennheiser headphones for reference checking as well, I also want to build a standard, widely accepted good DIY reference design as well just so I can have that on hand, currently considering the ScanSpeak ReDiscovery kit from Madisound, I've been wanting to try some of those Revelator woofers for a while.
Next step however is to test the Typhanny CD against the DE250 and go from there.
Thanks!
Javad
In my original comments I specifically said I heard it on Kelly Clarkson's Piece by Piece song, over the past week I've played that track on 4 different speakers and I got ahold of 3 different high quality "open back" headphones as well, lo and behold it's the recording and I hear that un-natural graininess in her voice on everything I've listened to. I can only assume since it was recorded live on American Idol the mastering and acoustics weren't ideal.
I'm really surprised nobody suggested that it could have been in the recording, vs. immediately jumping to conclusions about the cross over, etc.
I now have a set of nice Beyerdynamic and Sennheiser headphones for reference checking as well, I also want to build a standard, widely accepted good DIY reference design as well just so I can have that on hand, currently considering the ScanSpeak ReDiscovery kit from Madisound, I've been wanting to try some of those Revelator woofers for a while.
Next step however is to test the Typhanny CD against the DE250 and go from there.
Thanks!
Javad
JSHADZI,
Have you tested the BBC curve with your DSP, or putted a notch to see if the B&C could become itself an other driver as well ? Also to know more about towards what you 're looking for...
Because for the moment it's about try & error by swaping a whole driver more than understanding which makes a better sound in relation to your own tastes 🙁 , room, speaker/horn... combos !
Have you tested the BBC curve with your DSP, or putted a notch to see if the B&C could become itself an other driver as well ? Also to know more about towards what you 're looking for...
Because for the moment it's about try & error by swaping a whole driver more than understanding which makes a better sound in relation to your own tastes 🙁 , room, speaker/horn... combos !
Hello @Eldam , do you mean a dip in the 2-5k range? I suppose I haven't intentionally but what I've found EQing these speakers at least 10-15 hrs now is that so long the horns are in the +-3db range they sound excellent w/o too much difference in sound.
I don't have a particular problem with the sound of the DE250 as I've said many times in this thread, but simply wanted to try a different driver that was/is popular for excellent sound. Given that there are thousands of CD on the market it seems there is an opportunity to try what else is out there given the simple form factory of swapping CD's out on a horn.
I've been in audio and speaker building for years and have found that often the best way to truly hear one speaker is to compare it to another.
Thanks!
Javad
I don't have a particular problem with the sound of the DE250 as I've said many times in this thread, but simply wanted to try a different driver that was/is popular for excellent sound. Given that there are thousands of CD on the market it seems there is an opportunity to try what else is out there given the simple form factory of swapping CD's out on a horn.
I've been in audio and speaker building for years and have found that often the best way to truly hear one speaker is to compare it to another.
Thanks!
Javad
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Hi,
BBC curve is iirc a small an progressive - 6 dBcurve from 1 K Hz (or 2 ?) to 20K Hz !
What I meaned is not your driver is bad or that you don't like it as you said many times the opposite but more it can gives you artificially an other driver (by the change of curve).... which have not to stop you to try some others drivers as you asked in your first post 🙂. I think everybody understood, but also many are saying sometimes the swap of speakers (despite the good and usefull curiosity) is not always the main way to change the sound of a frequency range (as Allen B pointed out : a same driver can sound different) ! But you seem to have experienced the opposite...
Anyway, I'm looking forward to read your experience with the Tymphany compression driver.
BBC curve is iirc a small an progressive - 6 dBcurve from 1 K Hz (or 2 ?) to 20K Hz !
What I meaned is not your driver is bad or that you don't like it as you said many times the opposite but more it can gives you artificially an other driver (by the change of curve).... which have not to stop you to try some others drivers as you asked in your first post 🙂. I think everybody understood, but also many are saying sometimes the swap of speakers (despite the good and usefull curiosity) is not always the main way to change the sound of a frequency range (as Allen B pointed out : a same driver can sound different) ! But you seem to have experienced the opposite...
Anyway, I'm looking forward to read your experience with the Tymphany compression driver.
Hello @Eldam, yes absolutely I have spent a lot of time EQing these speakers (and others I've built this year), one of the reasons I invested in this active system initially so that I could take advantage of different EQ possibilities.
To give you an idea, I even tuned these towers with CD turned off and using 8" full range (just for fun but you get the idea).
Obviously these drivers out of the box and in room are anything but flat, I didn't set out to only make a flat curve and stop there.
Thanks!
Javad
To give you an idea, I even tuned these towers with CD turned off and using 8" full range (just for fun but you get the idea).
Obviously these drivers out of the box and in room are anything but flat, I didn't set out to only make a flat curve and stop there.
Thanks!
Javad
Btw, do you prefer the B&C over all the "low" efficienty tweeters you used to listen to ?
Have tou more detail now or a better soundstage maybe ?
Have tou more detail now or a better soundstage maybe ?
Kind of apples to oranges, but I still prefer Scanspeak's Be tweeter in a SEOS 8 to any CD/waveguide combination so far. Granted, I haven't heard a Be CD, yet.
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I heard TAD serie in a speaker which filter was setuped by Hiraga. The low and mid bass were Onken 360. Pretty natural listening.... no projected sound feeling in the mid and highs ! But maybe the energy and the classic JBL horns asked to be at min 6 meters....
8
Yep, we are all searching this passion fruit ! what is approximatly the radiation pattern of the Seos 8 please ?
8
Yep, we are all searching this passion fruit ! what is approximatly the radiation pattern of the Seos 8 please ?
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Ok everyone, follow up on the CD comparison as promised. Again this is the DE250 vs the new Tympany CD.
I was able to swap one of my Seos10 over last weekend and spent some time with these.
The DE250 dwarfs the "TCD"
And here it is installed in the Seos10
I immediately did FR sweeps of each driver with no EQ or XO. Measured at about 1 meter. DE250 is yellow, TCD is teal
Then I tuned each one to be flat and w/in about 1 db of each other, green is DE250, purple is TCD
Listening Impression
Frankly once tuned in not sure I can tell a difference, I feel like the DE250 sounds more detailed and full in a direct back and forth a/b comparison, but each on their own I'm not sure I'd miss it.
If I was on a strict budget the TCD hands down, if money isn't as tight the DE250 is a nicer made driver and could have the edge sonically.
W/o any EQ the DE250 sounds much better, no comparison.
I'm not sure what my next step will be on this project but I may try a more expensive Radian or BMS CD, not sure yet.
Thanks!
Javad
I was able to swap one of my Seos10 over last weekend and spent some time with these.
The DE250 dwarfs the "TCD"
And here it is installed in the Seos10
I immediately did FR sweeps of each driver with no EQ or XO. Measured at about 1 meter. DE250 is yellow, TCD is teal
Then I tuned each one to be flat and w/in about 1 db of each other, green is DE250, purple is TCD
Listening Impression
Frankly once tuned in not sure I can tell a difference, I feel like the DE250 sounds more detailed and full in a direct back and forth a/b comparison, but each on their own I'm not sure I'd miss it.
If I was on a strict budget the TCD hands down, if money isn't as tight the DE250 is a nicer made driver and could have the edge sonically.
W/o any EQ the DE250 sounds much better, no comparison.
I'm not sure what my next step will be on this project but I may try a more expensive Radian or BMS CD, not sure yet.
Thanks!
Javad
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