I'd consider the nasty breakup mode of the Faitals at 3.5khz as your issue instead of the DE250. Even though the FR roughness is down above the LP filter, the breakup still rings as odd order HD. Try LR4 instead before moving on to new CDs. Many builders blame harshness on tweeters and overlook the mid driver as the source. Take Scanspeak and SEAS magnesium woofers for example.......when not crossed low and steep enough, they sound horrible but when used properly they're often referred to as benchmarks.
Also, you need to dampen the inside of the SEOS10 which will smooth out most remaining resonances.
Also, you need to dampen the inside of the SEOS10 which will smooth out most remaining resonances.
No but it's a big famous classic driver here ! Always liked...
I'm not a specialist but I also think your curve is too flat, at least for my tastes ! You may try this notch as it's easily reversible : try - 5 dB from the 4k5 bump would give a little - 3 dB in relation to the flat curve : a little progressive hole from 3K to 6K! I had the same thing at home and I won a lot of confort !
I don't know if it is important, certainly not as all the good specialist here would had an input : maybe not if you have a SS amp or multiple in active:
Does the big raise in impedance curve of such motors around 2 or 3 K Hz is hearable and could be the problem as well ? Maybe a RLC shunt to kill this bump and make the impedance curve flater !
Don't you think it could not be the Faital you dislike but the faitals below ????
Just two cents, I have no clue but liked a lot what push you to build your first PA, i'm a little in this goal and have fear because of the bad reputation of horns/CD combo. In your shoes I will follow the advices of the experienced guys above to work on the filter and maybe some passive parts if you have some as for instance protective cap in serie despite the active setup ?!
Distortion measurement of DE250 in SEOS12
http://www.pispeakers.com/Measurements/Waveguides_H290C_and_SEOS12_14.15v_distortion_unsmoothed.jpg
http://www.pispeakers.com/Measurements/Waveguides_H290C_and_SEOS12_14.15v_distortion_unsmoothed.jpg
Yep, it's high. That peak is definitely audible at higher SPL's
I don't understand why people are still recommending this driver with all the choices available today.
I would like to see some radian distortion measurements. I bet they will look a lot better
I don't understand why people are still recommending this driver with all the choices available today.
I would like to see some radian distortion measurements. I bet they will look a lot better
Right, I'm back home now -
The compression driver that looks great in the 18Sound XT1086 horn is the 18Sound NSD1095N. Don't know what it would be like in thew Seos 10 though. Here's a thread where someone preferred it to the DE250 - LINK (post #46 and on).
I can remember reading a thread or two where people complained that the DE250 isn't as good as it used to be, and that it's a bit harsh now. They suggested that the Denovo DNA-360 is better option. The Denovo BA-750 looks interesting too but I haven't read any opinions on it apart from the one review on the Seos website.
The compression driver that looks great in the 18Sound XT1086 horn is the 18Sound NSD1095N. Don't know what it would be like in thew Seos 10 though. Here's a thread where someone preferred it to the DE250 - LINK (post #46 and on).
I can remember reading a thread or two where people complained that the DE250 isn't as good as it used to be, and that it's a bit harsh now. They suggested that the Denovo DNA-360 is better option. The Denovo BA-750 looks interesting too but I haven't read any opinions on it apart from the one review on the Seos website.
And also why the don't go with more classic tweeter but horned to have a controlled directivity ?! For instance a 96 dB SB Acoustic in a modern horn/wave guide ? Some can have 1500 (not too much, but a horn may help)
Most of efforts should be spent to improve the sound bellow 2 000 Hz, but no, it's always infinite talking about tweeters, AMT, ribbons, compression drivers and horns for the less important Fundamentals and harmonics !🙄
I dampened a SEOS12 and it made absolutely no difference response or distortion wise. Do you have any data indicating that the SEOS10 was built vastly different and is in need of damping?
And maybe this is the reason look both the impedance et FR curves : http://www.toutlehautparleur.com/media/catalog/product/datasheet/eighteen_sound/NSD1095N-8.pdf
One of the Faital pointed out has a similar FR curve but maybe not as flat impedance curve after 1K Hz... quite good, no for the XO of the OP ?
Actually I have been using a 24db slope, verified last night when I got home, the FaitalPro are 24db down by 3k hz.
And to reiterate, I do not have an "issue", I have said repeatedly that I am thrilled with the sound of this system and the DE250, I am simply looking for recommendations of a driver that anyone has experience sounding or liking better.
Since drivers are so easy to swap out in the horn, I'd like to try some different options and see what I can learn.
Saying anything about harshness was a mistake apparently, lesson learned =)
First I've heard of this, any more info on dampening a SEOS horn?
Thanks!
Javad
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I'm running the DE250 in my Pi Seven cornerhorns and most of the time they do what they are supposed to do. On some notes they get a bit harsh. Not a deal breaker but I would love to find a better high driver as well.
Exactly @compaddict! I'm curious as to what else is out there, comparing drivers is part of the fun in speaker building for me. I'll keep you posted on what I find, so far some of the Radian drivers are looking very intriguing and getting good feedback, thanks!
Javad
Javad
I just found two new JBL 2012h drivers for my mids and I am hoping for a bit more audio nirvana from them as well. I am active with MiniDSP so I can change anything out at will. Interested to see where this goes. I am not afraid to throw more money at better drivers!
Vince
Vince
Yeah, as if that matters. I wonder what the %2nd harmonic distortion is for a human ear is at 120dB?
Agreed, it doesn't say at what distance but that is blisteringly loud even if measured at 1 meter,even from 10' away.
Here's a more relevant pic ( to re-balance the narrative ) .
Most relevant ( re; distortion profile ) will be a measurement taken at a users actual listening level ( such as 85-90 db , for many listeners) .
Here's a low distortion example ( though the low voltage application artificially travels the bias in the opposite direction ) .
- This is very low distortion!
🙂
Wise words to heed Javad.
Consider;
( IME, there's a growing pool of rookie conclusions made by those who have gone all-electronic, thinking they are well in front of the QC bell-curve who now figure they won't need to learn about the constructive or destructive effects derived from passive componentry )
Take Note; ( in future conversations ); how other complainants will fit into this "all-electronic" profile .
These complaints don't exist when the driver is designed into a proper passive network ( such as what DIYSG enjoys ).
🙂
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