that was a PRV - not a FaitalPro above -http://www.parts-express.com/prv-audio-8mr500-php-4-8-midbass-midrange-woofer-4-ohm--294-2709
the $36 (shipped) Crunch CRSS8 also reaches to ~9KHz smooth on-axis
the $36 (shipped) Crunch CRSS8 also reaches to ~9KHz smooth on-axis
Freddi,
The 6MR500NDY-4 sims well in a 0.35x scale K15 with flat response down to 100 Hz with good transient ability as expected from a K.
0.35 K15 - - that sounds like a lot of fun - how would you shape the chamber for that experiment? - you need to try a K-tube tweeter
Yes, a 0.35x scale K will look very cute. The front chamber has given me problems with reflections that give resonance dips. Several people (GregB and others) have suggested a felt or other type of absorbent material on the inside of the wings and I think that helps. I think as the scale of the K aperture approaches length scales in the mid freq range I must be seeing destructive interference.
I have never tried a K tube as I always thought to use it with CD's and I don't really have any of those.
Putting one on the 5MR450 would be an easy thing to do if I can get a 5 in dia cardboard tube to cut. Maybe PVC sewer pipe remnants from HD or new home construction sites?
I have never tried a K tube as I always thought to use it with CD's and I don't really have any of those.
Putting one on the 5MR450 would be an easy thing to do if I can get a 5 in dia cardboard tube to cut. Maybe PVC sewer pipe remnants from HD or new home construction sites?
K-tube - I meant for tweeter use but a rear load K-tube would be an interesting experiment both bare and with an added baffle for the 5 inch speaker.
I wonder whether in smaller K's if a curved front chamber creates more problems than say a simple diagonal board - ? it might be determined if one fluent in foamcore or cardboard building did some experiments😀 - it would be nice to have a new K-midrange or satellite building block based on a 6" driver.
I wonder whether in smaller K's if a curved front chamber creates more problems than say a simple diagonal board - ? it might be determined if one fluent in foamcore or cardboard building did some experiments😀 - it would be nice to have a new K-midrange or satellite building block based on a 6" driver.
see if you can do a good little foamkore or kardboard klam - if nothing else it might tell us what not to do🙂
here's an example of one for an 8 http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/4966/smallklam.jpg
I've got one Eminence Delta8A - surprised to see that the L.Cao F6 is somewhat more sensitive plus very extended on top.
here's an example of one for an 8 http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/4966/smallklam.jpg
I've got one Eminence Delta8A - surprised to see that the L.Cao F6 is somewhat more sensitive plus very extended on top.
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that should mate well with some woofer/subwoofers - -I've seen 2 deep dips with a 12" speaker & small area vent in X15 while Acoustic Control's 115BK with its large (~27 sq.in.) vent is pretty smooth.
X15 - small vent - Beyma 12cx - I'm reasonably sure with a larger vent that the 1st dip would be less intense
115BK Acoustic Control -EV15L ~ ground plane - no damping material at all in the box
- btw - even with this high cutoff I don't think many listeners would criticize it as having poor bass or no bass. A K-tube tweeter
is probably better overall than a horn or CD-WG.
115BK dimensions - imo a better solution at times than a horn system with a midbass horn
X15 ran an internal K-tube - it sounded very good
here's the spawn of X15
one of the late Ernst Beck's version (BEC-1) of the Transylvania Power product
- smaller area vent than 115BK - I think this would have a more defined mid perhaps
due to more reflector area - wonder how the central vent compares to two side
vents of similar area and why the central vent was picked.
X15 - small vent - Beyma 12cx - I'm reasonably sure with a larger vent that the 1st dip would be less intense
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
115BK Acoustic Control -EV15L ~ ground plane - no damping material at all in the box
- btw - even with this high cutoff I don't think many listeners would criticize it as having poor bass or no bass. A K-tube tweeter
is probably better overall than a horn or CD-WG.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
115BK dimensions - imo a better solution at times than a horn system with a midbass horn
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
X15 ran an internal K-tube - it sounded very good
here's the spawn of X15
one of the late Ernst Beck's version (BEC-1) of the Transylvania Power product
- smaller area vent than 115BK - I think this would have a more defined mid perhaps
due to more reflector area - wonder how the central vent compares to two side
vents of similar area and why the central vent was picked.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Freddi,
That 115BK looks interesting. What is your impression of how different does it sound compared to K15? When I scale the K15 down to a small size to get only 100Hz extension, the dips that would normally be in the 200 to 500Hz range really go away. It is just a sim so don't know how it works in reality. There are some 3d effects between the wings and cone when things get this small.
That 115BK looks interesting. What is your impression of how different does it sound compared to K15? When I scale the K15 down to a small size to get only 100Hz extension, the dips that would normally be in the 200 to 500Hz range really go away. It is just a sim so don't know how it works in reality. There are some 3d effects between the wings and cone when things get this small.
(K15 can sound very good) - the small airspace to cone area couplers (K12, X15, 115BK) are in general a .bit lighter in overall LF reach vs K15 - K12 is capable of good dynamics - 115BK and X15 would do similar work and cutoff with less cone excursion. 115BK sounds like a Karlson "should" - an open midrange that's more "live" than most direct radiator. Its a good little K.
for bulk, the Karlsonator 12 has more LF reach than 115BK and retains a good sound - I've only heard the Karlsonator 6 and 12 so far but would assume Karlsonator 8 a nice performer
when using a woofer, a K-tube tweeter is something worth considering and can take things to a new level.
for bulk, the Karlsonator 12 has more LF reach than 115BK and retains a good sound - I've only heard the Karlsonator 6 and 12 so far but would assume Karlsonator 8 a nice performer
when using a woofer, a K-tube tweeter is something worth considering and can take things to a new level.
5MR450NDY in Nautaloss Stereo!
Finally received the second driver and installed into the other Nautaloss box. Set it up using a 175 Hz XO (24dB/oct) and a boost to the subwoofer of +5dB overall output to compensate for the higher sensitivity of the tops. Well, I fired it up with a tune from YouTube, and even with such a limited quality source, it sounds FANTASTIC! The dynamics, articulation, and overall impact are amazing. With the MR450NDY's being true point sources as opposed to the the dual Vifa's, the coherence/imaging, sound stage, and presence are just superb. The highs are not lacking. It sounds really, really, GOOD. 😀
Here is a photo of the setup:
Here is a sound clip from YouTube as the source.
Have a listen to it and really think about trying these drivers out - they take fullrange to a new level in that the head room is huge and the peak SPL's are very high if needed. You can play very loudly with modest amps. Almost party levels.
Finally received the second driver and installed into the other Nautaloss box. Set it up using a 175 Hz XO (24dB/oct) and a boost to the subwoofer of +5dB overall output to compensate for the higher sensitivity of the tops. Well, I fired it up with a tune from YouTube, and even with such a limited quality source, it sounds FANTASTIC! The dynamics, articulation, and overall impact are amazing. With the MR450NDY's being true point sources as opposed to the the dual Vifa's, the coherence/imaging, sound stage, and presence are just superb. The highs are not lacking. It sounds really, really, GOOD. 😀
Here is a photo of the setup:
Here is a sound clip from YouTube as the source.
Have a listen to it and really think about trying these drivers out - they take fullrange to a new level in that the head room is huge and the peak SPL's are very high if needed. You can play very loudly with modest amps. Almost party levels.
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Thanks reporting xrk971, sound clip sounds very live, is the file a recording from your room or is it as you write "Here is a sound clip from YouTube as the source".
Imagine it sounds good, this based you earlier learnt me the importance of 3-4 feets from backwall, plus your one point sits aprox in middle of floor and ceiling. Such setup gives me very good sound with A10.2 sitting alone 40-20Khz though the driver needs heavy EQ to be as i think real neutral not the same as A10.2 neutral and the bottom needs a boost because of sealed box. Guess you can reach clean sound and high SPL in room, being a pleasure being in the room.
Imagine it sounds good, this based you earlier learnt me the importance of 3-4 feets from backwall, plus your one point sits aprox in middle of floor and ceiling. Such setup gives me very good sound with A10.2 sitting alone 40-20Khz though the driver needs heavy EQ to be as i think real neutral not the same as A10.2 neutral and the bottom needs a boost because of sealed box. Guess you can reach clean sound and high SPL in room, being a pleasure being in the room.
Byrtt,
That is actual recording in my room of the speakers playing a song from YouTube. Recording made with Zoom H4 recorder. No heavy EQ'ing other than -5dB shelf from 1100hz for BSC.
That is actual recording in my room of the speakers playing a song from YouTube. Recording made with Zoom H4 recorder. No heavy EQ'ing other than -5dB shelf from 1100hz for BSC.
, imagine that setup also gives a good perceived soundstage (power response) when listening going to another room and leave the door open.
When I have it cranked loud and go to next room with door open it sounds like there is a live band playing in my basement. 😀
Great....
Just observed myself than when setup is spaced away from backwall/floor/ceiling like yours, at same is a relative simple pointing device 1 or 2 way and tuned to good sound in room, then sound from other room with open door is relative good too just without inface sound. Where with speakers tight spaced to walls/floor/ceiling and/or more multiway driven, sound from another room with open door really change character (Power response from certain frequency range rule, often the lower end).
Just observed myself than when setup is spaced away from backwall/floor/ceiling like yours, at same is a relative simple pointing device 1 or 2 way and tuned to good sound in room, then sound from other room with open door is relative good too just without inface sound. Where with speakers tight spaced to walls/floor/ceiling and/or more multiway driven, sound from another room with open door really change character (Power response from certain frequency range rule, often the lower end).
Yes, the imaging and sound stage really improve when the speakers are set at least 4 ft from back wall. Sometimes I close my eyes and I can pinpoint the drum kit location, the cello, the piano, etc and the singer. There is something different when the full range driver is a 5 inch vs a 3.5 inch - it just feels more visceral when you hear cymbals, drums, and even voices. Anyhow, I am really happy with these speakers now and will just be listening and enjoying them for a while as I work on a new box for them that will allow them to reach maximum SPL with less cone motion than a sealed box.
I just listened to the same song by Anne Bisson properly played at a higher bit-rate via iTunes. The speakers now sound even better. The album "Blue Mind" is perhaps one of the best examples of what a great recording and mastering should sound like. The song sounds stunning everytime I play it.
From the looks of it and the response curve suggest this driver is spooky similar to the beyma 5G40Nd. Perhaps even the same chassis?
I have it on an open baffle crossed at 700hz and it is excellent. Far better than the fostex drivers I've tried before it.
I have it on an open baffle crossed at 700hz and it is excellent. Far better than the fostex drivers I've tried before it.
Thanks for telling us about the Beyma 5G40Nd - it does indeed look similar in that there is a ring of Nd magnet slugs. The Beyma has a pincushion frame and PRV a rounded corner square frame so different. The Beyma hits higher frequencies but is 1mm xmax and 10watts rms. Qts is lower too.