I will do tomorrow, get my ears lying down now, midnight here. Sorry that I did again set things difficult to read, I was to busy thinking on that.
For damping I can use sheets for car resonances or roof leather to burn that on sides.
regards
I was so close to pulling the trigger on a baffle wall. But this has got my attention big time. I've spent the last 5 months planning a build. I really enjoy learning about this stuff so the wait is ok. But winter is coming and I want something made and in my living room very soon.
To be honest I don't have much time left to do much more homework learning now about horns. Winter in Winnipeg is not a fun time for woodworking in the cold garage. So I am going to throw out a bunch of questions and will be incredibly appreciative for any replies.
1) I am looking for directivity in my system. I am in an apartment and I want the sound coming to my couch, with absorption wall behind it, minimal reflections. Can I get that with these horns?
2) I was going to build a baffle wall for 2pi wave propagation / no baffle step, do Trynergy horns radiate 2pi?
3) I generally use on axis equilateral triangle speaker placement. Does that work well with these?
4) I stream music from a home theater pc. Can I equalize from there? (JRiver, Foobar, etc) Because I notice there is a lot of talk about equalization. How much might I expect?
5)Does the horn only work on certain frequencies?
6) I'm using a single Aurasound ns3-193-8a1 for each. With sensitivity 80db @ 1khz. Is that ok?(https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...urasound-ns3-193-8a1-3-black-cone-wide-range/)
Whew. Well there are some questions. If I get some replies I will be a very happy camper. I want to make these happen, soon!
To be honest I don't have much time left to do much more homework learning now about horns. Winter in Winnipeg is not a fun time for woodworking in the cold garage. So I am going to throw out a bunch of questions and will be incredibly appreciative for any replies.
1) I am looking for directivity in my system. I am in an apartment and I want the sound coming to my couch, with absorption wall behind it, minimal reflections. Can I get that with these horns?
2) I was going to build a baffle wall for 2pi wave propagation / no baffle step, do Trynergy horns radiate 2pi?
3) I generally use on axis equilateral triangle speaker placement. Does that work well with these?
4) I stream music from a home theater pc. Can I equalize from there? (JRiver, Foobar, etc) Because I notice there is a lot of talk about equalization. How much might I expect?
5)Does the horn only work on certain frequencies?
6) I'm using a single Aurasound ns3-193-8a1 for each. With sensitivity 80db @ 1khz. Is that ok?(https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...urasound-ns3-193-8a1-3-black-cone-wide-range/)
Whew. Well there are some questions. If I get some replies I will be a very happy camper. I want to make these happen, soon!
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Thank you!
Now I know this can work, a design question.
I'll try and make this easy to decipher
-------------------------------------------
My receiver is 90wpc
Subwoofer amp is 120wpc into 2 channels
Receiver sub output is mono
No other pre-outs
Have two 8" seas drivers for subs.
My plan originally was to run full range down low (100hz - 80hz?) to meet with subs. Hence using aura drivers.
Do you see my dilemma?
Do I turn this into a 2 way loudspeaker powered by 90wpc. Or do I run the horns low enough to cross over to 2 subs in mono powered separately? My receiver can cross as high as 250hz
For now this is just what I have to work with. Student budget.
Now I know this can work, a design question.
I'll try and make this easy to decipher
-------------------------------------------
My receiver is 90wpc
Subwoofer amp is 120wpc into 2 channels
Receiver sub output is mono
No other pre-outs
Have two 8" seas drivers for subs.
My plan originally was to run full range down low (100hz - 80hz?) to meet with subs. Hence using aura drivers.
Do you see my dilemma?
Do I turn this into a 2 way loudspeaker powered by 90wpc. Or do I run the horns low enough to cross over to 2 subs in mono powered separately? My receiver can cross as high as 250hz
For now this is just what I have to work with. Student budget.
You don't want to run main tractrix driver to 100Hz. Distortion will be huge and there is no horn gain below 400hz so output will be minuscule compared to above 400Hz. You could make a bass horn to go 50Hz up to 500Hz and get matching sensitivity.
Hmm, I may have just met my maker. I don't think I have the room for bass horns....
I was hoping to make three horns in the front for LCR and let the surrounds cope for now. I don't think I have room for 3 bass horns up front. 65ish cm is as deep a speaker that I can put up front.
Is there any other option you can think of to take these front channels low enough to meet subs? I don't need a ton of bass.
I was hoping to make three horns in the front for LCR and let the surrounds cope for now. I don't think I have room for 3 bass horns up front. 65ish cm is as deep a speaker that I can put up front.
Is there any other option you can think of to take these front channels low enough to meet subs? I don't need a ton of bass.
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Just use either sealed or reflex boxes to cover low end to 500Hz and run it like any other FAST. Preferably 12in woofers but could be smaller depending on your SPL level needs.
Ok, so if I am using 80db Aura's in Trynergy horns. I can expect approx 92db efficiency? So I should look for a woofer with similar efficiency? You wouldn't have any suggestions, would you?
Look for 95dB or so sensitive pro woofers from 10in to 12in and put in a ported box. Eminence Beta 12II or B&C 10CL51. If you have room, even OB woofers on an H frame can work - a favorite is the Alpha 15A is a good price, has 97dB. The bass from the OB will be much more immediate than a ported box.
I personally prefer sealed box. But looking at affordable pro drivers, they don't really like sealed boxes... I was hoping to implement Dr. Toole's methods of controlling room modes with multiple subs. But if I am going to dish out this kind of money on woofers. Then I think they are going to be doing bass duty.
Are there timing issues with the driver in the horn being so far back, and the woofer I assume being much closer to the end of the horn? Is this something you would consider worth addressing?
Aside from using a bass horn are there any other ways to get more directional sound from the midbass woofer? I guess integrating into a baffle wall...?
Believe it or not I am trying to control sound leakage into my only neighbor's suite downstairs. When he is at work I can go nuts, but I still will use the system in the evening when he is at home. Albeit quieter and bass reduced. I don't know if this is a wasted effort or not. lol. The couch where he sits is directly below my system and they share that wall.
Thanks again
Are there timing issues with the driver in the horn being so far back, and the woofer I assume being much closer to the end of the horn? Is this something you would consider worth addressing?
Aside from using a bass horn are there any other ways to get more directional sound from the midbass woofer? I guess integrating into a baffle wall...?
Believe it or not I am trying to control sound leakage into my only neighbor's suite downstairs. When he is at work I can go nuts, but I still will use the system in the evening when he is at home. Albeit quieter and bass reduced. I don't know if this is a wasted effort or not. lol. The couch where he sits is directly below my system and they share that wall.
Thanks again
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Mindsource--are you trying to do a 2-way or a 3-way?
2 way:
-Full range down to ~100 Hz
-Pair of 8" Subwoofers
3 way
-Full range down to ~400-500 Hz
-5-8" woofer(s) aligned along tractrix horn (a-la Trynergy) down to 80-100 Hz, such as the 6.5" PE $5 wonders
-Pair of 8" Subwoofers
The 2-way probably isn't going to work, as you're asking too much of the full-range. With the 3-way, you still will be *relatively* undersized in the bass department. Then again, 2x8" subs in the right alignment might do the trick volume-wise (even if the tops will be able to out power them by 12-20 dB).
2 way:
-Full range down to ~100 Hz
-Pair of 8" Subwoofers
3 way
-Full range down to ~400-500 Hz
-5-8" woofer(s) aligned along tractrix horn (a-la Trynergy) down to 80-100 Hz, such as the 6.5" PE $5 wonders
-Pair of 8" Subwoofers
The 2-way probably isn't going to work, as you're asking too much of the full-range. With the 3-way, you still will be *relatively* undersized in the bass department. Then again, 2x8" subs in the right alignment might do the trick volume-wise (even if the tops will be able to out power them by 12-20 dB).
Oh, it's all making sense to me now. Don't I feel silly.
I was so intimidated by what I originally saw on the first page of this thread that my brain just kinda turned off. I thought oh jeez I can't start learning about all this horn stuff now, I've got exams coming up. So I asked xrk if I could just stick an aurasound ns3 in there and respectfully he told me how it would work.
But now that I see that whatever questions I ask are getting answered, and I don't need to totally figure this out for myself I went back to that first page and you know what? I think I can make that speaker....
Just to confirm, these are the two types of drivers I will use?
https://www.parts-express.com/tymphany-tc9fd18-08-3-1-2-full-range-paper-cone-woofer--264-1062
https://www.parts-express.com/6-1-2-poly-cone-midbass-woofer-4-ohm--299-609
And then I just build as described and mate those to a couple subs and I'm laughing?
Edit, Hold the phone. I can't bi-amp...
I was so intimidated by what I originally saw on the first page of this thread that my brain just kinda turned off. I thought oh jeez I can't start learning about all this horn stuff now, I've got exams coming up. So I asked xrk if I could just stick an aurasound ns3 in there and respectfully he told me how it would work.
But now that I see that whatever questions I ask are getting answered, and I don't need to totally figure this out for myself I went back to that first page and you know what? I think I can make that speaker....
Just to confirm, these are the two types of drivers I will use?
https://www.parts-express.com/tymphany-tc9fd18-08-3-1-2-full-range-paper-cone-woofer--264-1062
https://www.parts-express.com/6-1-2-poly-cone-midbass-woofer-4-ohm--299-609
And then I just build as described and mate those to a couple subs and I'm laughing?
Edit, Hold the phone. I can't bi-amp...
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Yes, now you are on the right track. The TC9FD is a great driver for a lot of things, and can work here, but this one, although $32 is a lot better.
https://www.parts-express.com/faita...rofessional-full-range-woofer-8-ohm--294-1101
Using four of those 6.5in $5 polycone woofers in series parallel will get you 94dB of bass down to 90Hz when mounted as shown in the photos.
From there, it is easy to use almost any sort of sub woofer to cover below 90Hz. Even a premade HT style cube subwoofer.
You need to be able to bi-amp to make this work. Get a 4 channel sound card or get a miniDSP 2x4 for $80 + $10 adv 2-way plugin.
The miniDSP will be the best $120 (plus shipping) you will have ever spent on diy. You need a mic too so add UMIK-1.
You can use these over and over for an infinite number of speakers so it's money well spent.
Also, throw in a few cheap $15 class D TPA3116 amps.
https://www.parts-express.com/faita...rofessional-full-range-woofer-8-ohm--294-1101
Using four of those 6.5in $5 polycone woofers in series parallel will get you 94dB of bass down to 90Hz when mounted as shown in the photos.
From there, it is easy to use almost any sort of sub woofer to cover below 90Hz. Even a premade HT style cube subwoofer.
You need to be able to bi-amp to make this work. Get a 4 channel sound card or get a miniDSP 2x4 for $80 + $10 adv 2-way plugin.
The miniDSP will be the best $120 (plus shipping) you will have ever spent on diy. You need a mic too so add UMIK-1.
You can use these over and over for an infinite number of speakers so it's money well spent.
Also, throw in a few cheap $15 class D TPA3116 amps.
Ok, here's the thing. I have a multichannel soundcard that I could use for active, and I could go for the class D amps... But I want to have home theater aaaand I am kinda scared of losing Audyssey MultEQ XT.
Am I making sense or should I change directions?
Show me the light!! 😛
Am I making sense or should I change directions?
Show me the light!! 😛
Hey X.
I am tile printing the PDF's now and wanted to confirm some numbers.
You mentioned that we should scale the drawing to 70% so the throat equals 2"x2",
I assume you are talking internal diameter?
I have printed the top and bottom panel PDF and this is what I am measuring.
66.5% throat ID = 1"14/16
70.0% throat ID = 1"15/16
I only printer the side panels PDF once @ 66.5% and the throat = 1"15/16
Should I set 2"x2" as the reference and keep trying scale adjustments until i get that?
Cheers mate
Dean
I am tile printing the PDF's now and wanted to confirm some numbers.
You mentioned that we should scale the drawing to 70% so the throat equals 2"x2",
I assume you are talking internal diameter?
I have printed the top and bottom panel PDF and this is what I am measuring.
66.5% throat ID = 1"14/16
70.0% throat ID = 1"15/16
I only printer the side panels PDF once @ 66.5% and the throat = 1"15/16
Should I set 2"x2" as the reference and keep trying scale adjustments until i get that?
Cheers mate
Dean
1 and 15/16 is close enough, the main thing is that the top and bottom panels and the side panels have the same dimension at the throat. This is so that when you glue it, they will go together to properly form the prescribed tractrix profile. It may work still if a bit off. So if the throat is measuring 1 and 15/16 for all 4 panels, it's fine.
Yes, the dimension is the internal throat dimension (open square aperture where driver goes).
Good luck!
What are you making it out of? I know foam core is hard to find in Australia, and if you do find it, it's not $1 per sheet 🙂
You're right.
This...
https://www.minidsp.com/products/ht-series/nanoavr-hd
Just changed everything. I can still use my Denon's 7 discrete amps. (apparently 125wpc. Yippee!)
Heck I could start tri-amping things. Lol. No but really it is expensive, but the HDMI minidsp along with my receiver offers me 7 amplifiers at my disposal, and hdmi pass through for the t.v. Like XRK said, it is a long term DIY investment.
I think something is going to happen soon. After my exams are done next week.
It is a bit of a pill to swallow, but I think I am going to stick with stereo for now... What do you think? I can get more from a really nice 2.2 channel Trynergy setup then I would have gotten with 5.2 using Aura ns3's in a baffle wall?
5 months of planning, many different ideas and designs, my girlfriend is just boggled and she misses me... My finger is on the trigger...
Yeah, I never found any foam core locally and wasnt gonna pay shipping so ply it is.
Gonna do the sides first from 3mm ply against a form then use over sized top and bottoms so I can mount the peerless 850439's later.
I can build the complete unit with spare ply and drivers just sitting on the shelf so cheap, easy and fun.
Just thinking I could route a channel in the top and bottom 12mm ply I have for easy shaping of the flare. Just overcut the first layer of side 3mm ply then cut and lay the other 3 or 4 layers at normal size and slide them in.
Just a thought for now....
Cheers for the confirmation x.
Gonna do the sides first from 3mm ply against a form then use over sized top and bottoms so I can mount the peerless 850439's later.
I can build the complete unit with spare ply and drivers just sitting on the shelf so cheap, easy and fun.
Just thinking I could route a channel in the top and bottom 12mm ply I have for easy shaping of the flare. Just overcut the first layer of side 3mm ply then cut and lay the other 3 or 4 layers at normal size and slide them in.
Just a thought for now....
Cheers for the confirmation x.
Letraset used to make foam core board. It's used regularly in design studios so try a graphics or office supplier.