Good point. I have a lot of drivers to try and so little time 🙂
10F/8424
B80
FR88EX
Could be a whole new series of blind listening tests with full range drivers in a Trynergy FAST 😀
Thanks info nice all those drivers was measured inside advertised specs. Okay then if Qts is extracted based impedance peak only i will keep a eye if it changes after a driver had been breaken in, actual can do this test my 10F pair one is still untouched the other one had been playing for several months, only problem is i don't want stop it playing : )
.....😀
Agree good points to get one think over if one wants clone Synergy principle or multi multi point source principle.
I don't think it is critical to have low low Qts. It may help reduce ringing due to more excursion authority. But look at 5MR450NDY - monster Nd motor is strong as heck and Qts is 0.55. Works very well.
I have seen that tangband has nice ones.
W3-2141 - TB speakers 3 inch fullrange speaker - Europe audio
but as 2 inch, then throat is to big, so I need 3 or 4 inch.
that qts is so high is because the 5MR450NDY has a very heavy cone, then you need a strong motor for good impulse behavior and
so yes it can work in a horn. But best is licht cone strong motor, it is independent of each other.
regards
Ok. I am pulling the Trynergy out of storage an back on the stands tonight for some driver swapping fun. 😀
This could be fun. Especially when it sounds so good it stuns me - as the Trynergy did the first time I heard it. Now with Harsch XO it should be even better.
This could be fun. Especially when it sounds so good it stuns me - as the Trynergy did the first time I heard it. Now with Harsch XO it should be even better.
Ok, I think I am going to pull the trigger...
On your advice I think I will opt for the FaitalPro...
As for the minidsp is there any difference between these two aside from the box?
https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidspkits/2-x-in-4-x-out
https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4
And then for the amps there seems to be some debate on Parts Express as to which is the best value class D amp. What is up with the high distortion values for the class D amps? I'm going Trynergy to get away from distortion..
Yuan-Jing TPA3116 Class D Amplifier Board 50W+50W
https://www.parts-express.com/sure-electronics-2x50w-tda7492-class-d-amplifier-board--320-301
https://www.parts-express.com/tda7492-digital-audio-amplifier-board-2x50w--320-606
The amplifiers is the main thing concerning me at this point.
I am exited, and anxious. Sounds like some tweaking is going on in this thread though, should I wait or is the basic design copy, paste ready to go?
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.....🙂
.....🙂
Agree too little time, but your driver list is .....🙂
Suggestion: When you been thru them FR88EX/10F/B80 and found your personal preference with Harsch XO type then shift to less ringing soft slopes LR4 textbook acoustic slopes measured in air plus correct acoustic offset delays and send me exported IR-wav file, then from me you get back a Rephase created IR-wav file that when loaded as convolution plugin in JRiver or Foobar player your system phase would act as it was one full range driver. If you like idea and sound you could share a recording the performance : )
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Class D is world class when done right - the TPA3116 is 0.1% THD when running with 19v laptop supply and below 40 watts. Quality components are important too. Stay away from the YJ board - it is not best layout or components. Get these:
Amazon.com: SMAKN® TPA3116 Amplifier Board(50W+50W) D Class Amplifier Board: Electronics
The only diff with minidsp is a case. If you think it's worth $25 then buy the case.
I might have missed something kees but would a farady cage around your Mic amp help?
I wonder if you could also tac some cheap chicken wire to the outside wall facing your neighbour? It would be interesting to see what he is doing with radar, pity he won't play nice.
I wonder if you could also tac some cheap chicken wire to the outside wall facing your neighbour? It would be interesting to see what he is doing with radar, pity he won't play nice.
I have been looking for an answer to the tpa3116d question too x so thanks for the link. To be used for the trynergy.
Nabure did more then that, want me go away here and have put on the internet and youtube channel that I sexual abuse children.
she has to go to judge on 4 november because of slander.
And I am sensitive for yhing like mobile phones, my ears go ticking after 5 minutes of calling, and get really strange, nabure now this and so he radiate me but this is soon over.
cage of faraday do not work, the wifi puts out 8 watts max 5 meters from my home, it go through, but soon nabure get trouble by judge, because hospital has disccover the sensitivity and so I live here away from antennas, but when the home owner give permit on nabure his boss, while she now I am sensitive!!, even my big lcd tv let my ears ringing very bad, only in this home I have ringing, nasty when try to listen to music..
The netherlands looks good but is'nt, companys here have more rights then civilians, even when she sick. But i think USA do the same, and NL follow them the last years. oeiiii this is politics not allowed sorry.
back to the horns.
Oke I think my amp do oscillate on high frequenties but my phillips scope PM3055 did stop working, so have to repair his supply, came smoke off that.
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Hi all, my friend and I built 4 wooden Tractrix horns (Faital 3FE22) for renegade outdoor quad performances/parties. It wasn't all that hard, but the thin plywood required a pre-soak (16+ hours wrapped in very wet towels under a trash bag to prevent it drying out) and it took our 4 hands to accomplish the bending/curve fitting of the ply to the top and bottom walls. (The best way to fit the sidewalls to the curves is to face the horn down and just press the curved walls into place. This could almost be done by 1 person alone if they had flexible clamps.
I believe the ply is 3 layers of furniture grade hard wood, but my source was scraps from a burning man project so I'm not exactly sure what wood we're talking about (no, i'm not a burner).
So we built 4 of these over 2 days... The first day we cut the 8 side panels out, the 8 flat top/bot panels and the rear chamber boxes and started some assembly. The second day we screwed/glued them, stuffed the boxes, and basically finished the design as shown in the attached pictures.
They are incredibly light. They required a thin CLD layer along the side to reduce woody tone/resonances. Due to the construction style if you cut it to just the right size it is forced to curve onto the horn body between the stabilizing fins (cause it's obviously a torpedo) and the horn mouth brace that keeps the thin plywood from bending like a jbl2360a... (It will bend like a 2360 if you don't brace it, really).
XRK mentioned a post showing a 6uF cap would smooth the system out to near flat performance... I haven't tried this yet, as these horns are incredibly loud I don't mind the HF rolloff if there is a bit of EQ to compensate.
The draw for me is that they weigh almost nothing, can run on solar or battery power with an appropriate amp (at considerable volume) and can be easily lofted into trees or other random locations. If an actual renegade fails (which happens sometimes) the loss of a $24 driver, a few cables, an amp and some wood wouldn't be a very big deal compared to most PA top-horns, plus who wants to confiscate the 1950s? The aesthetic of these horns is pretty cool.
Anyway, I'm still working on a bass solution and building 4 big hi-fi PRV versions of the tractrix for larger outdoor events. I'm sharing the pictures in hopes some others might consider making them from wood. They look pretty good in decent light and take paint well too. The top and bottom panels should be slightly thicker than 3/8"... I'd go 1/2" or 5/8" to make screwing into them easier or even 3/4 if you don't plan on moving them around. CLD seems the ticket for reducing wall resonances so maybe go a little stronger/thicker/wider than we did with the second layer.
Notes from our build: The tractrix curve templates didn't print symmetrically, so make sure those are working how you want (possibly fold them to get symmetry as the files on DIYA are oddly non-symmetric? Make your curved horn panels slightly larger on the vert axis (so the CSA of the horn doesn't change) and you accomplish the correct/simulated tractrix profile. If you adopt the construction method shown you'll be making the throat and horn profile slightly different than XRK presented. The recess for the driver isn't needed unless you're seriously going to exploit the SPL potential of these. Take care with the throat entrance... Keep everything as smooth and uniform as you can as any changes at this point will be that much more audible (small problems get amplified and recursed)...
I believe the ply is 3 layers of furniture grade hard wood, but my source was scraps from a burning man project so I'm not exactly sure what wood we're talking about (no, i'm not a burner).
So we built 4 of these over 2 days... The first day we cut the 8 side panels out, the 8 flat top/bot panels and the rear chamber boxes and started some assembly. The second day we screwed/glued them, stuffed the boxes, and basically finished the design as shown in the attached pictures.
They are incredibly light. They required a thin CLD layer along the side to reduce woody tone/resonances. Due to the construction style if you cut it to just the right size it is forced to curve onto the horn body between the stabilizing fins (cause it's obviously a torpedo) and the horn mouth brace that keeps the thin plywood from bending like a jbl2360a... (It will bend like a 2360 if you don't brace it, really).
XRK mentioned a post showing a 6uF cap would smooth the system out to near flat performance... I haven't tried this yet, as these horns are incredibly loud I don't mind the HF rolloff if there is a bit of EQ to compensate.
The draw for me is that they weigh almost nothing, can run on solar or battery power with an appropriate amp (at considerable volume) and can be easily lofted into trees or other random locations. If an actual renegade fails (which happens sometimes) the loss of a $24 driver, a few cables, an amp and some wood wouldn't be a very big deal compared to most PA top-horns, plus who wants to confiscate the 1950s? The aesthetic of these horns is pretty cool.
Anyway, I'm still working on a bass solution and building 4 big hi-fi PRV versions of the tractrix for larger outdoor events. I'm sharing the pictures in hopes some others might consider making them from wood. They look pretty good in decent light and take paint well too. The top and bottom panels should be slightly thicker than 3/8"... I'd go 1/2" or 5/8" to make screwing into them easier or even 3/4 if you don't plan on moving them around. CLD seems the ticket for reducing wall resonances so maybe go a little stronger/thicker/wider than we did with the second layer.
Notes from our build: The tractrix curve templates didn't print symmetrically, so make sure those are working how you want (possibly fold them to get symmetry as the files on DIYA are oddly non-symmetric? Make your curved horn panels slightly larger on the vert axis (so the CSA of the horn doesn't change) and you accomplish the correct/simulated tractrix profile. If you adopt the construction method shown you'll be making the throat and horn profile slightly different than XRK presented. The recess for the driver isn't needed unless you're seriously going to exploit the SPL potential of these. Take care with the throat entrance... Keep everything as smooth and uniform as you can as any changes at this point will be that much more audible (small problems get amplified and recursed)...
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Oh yeah and consider the direction of your plywood and how it will take screws before you make the top/bot panels... You can only go so close to the outer edge before you'll break the plywood with your screw. These horns are fairly tensioned objects and will break the thin strip of ply at the mouth if it's pierced by a screw..
anthonybisset,
Looks great thanks sharing build data, curved panels looks little thin but braced by the CLD layer, do you think this solution is also good enough if bass solution will be injection ports as xrk971 did.
Looks great thanks sharing build data, curved panels looks little thin but braced by the CLD layer, do you think this solution is also good enough if bass solution will be injection ports as xrk971 did.
Thanks for sharing Anthony Bisset. Those look great - and I like your approach to making the curved side panels taller to allow screwing into the flat panels end-on. Perhaps make the curved panels even taller for extra screw clearance. I like the mouth down and bending the ply while screwing in approach. Your throat looks rectangular and not square, or is that just the photo perspective. Do you have any measurements? How did you handles the lower frequencies?
I have done measurement with the open baffle and the horn, looks like both has a very common outcome. Something here is not oke, put it in a metal housing did not work.
possible the mike itselfs is a problem, but in past I had nice measurements.
Also the soundcard can be a cause, maybe a usb soundcard is best.
picture one is when it did well, it is smoothed 1/2. strange it is suddenly not who can point to radiation, the scope do see pulses.
regards
possible the mike itselfs is a problem, but in past I had nice measurements.
Also the soundcard can be a cause, maybe a usb soundcard is best.
picture one is when it did well, it is smoothed 1/2. strange it is suddenly not who can point to radiation, the scope do see pulses.
regards
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Sorry about your mic troubles. That's why I use a mic with pre-amp,ADC, and USB all in mic head to avoid all these noise issues.
Check out UMIK-1 from miniDSP.
Check out UMIK-1 from miniDSP.
The throat is slightly rectangular because I didn't resize the template curve for the side panels (like I suggested in my post above)... A quick mental review suggested the profile was still the same, just the total volume of the horn had changed slightly (no?)... Hopefully I didn't compromise the FR too much. They sound pretty good, but it was a known compromise given I only had 2 days to make 4 of them.
I had a chance to listen to the painted and glued CLD version this morning before sending it off to play records in a 1930's hotel powder room (art installation) and it has a surprising amount of bass when used without a crossover... In the near field the direct radiator portion of BW makes it seem almost like its full range. Low volume listening is kinda fun although IMD becomes an issue pretty quick. How did you tune the rear chamber of this horn? For low mids to HF I would have thought a sealed back driver would have been closer to reactance annulled... I'm glad it's not as it's more fun to play with an adjustable back chamber volume.
I really like the Faital 3FE22 in a tractrix. It's quite pleasant.
I had a chance to listen to the painted and glued CLD version this morning before sending it off to play records in a 1930's hotel powder room (art installation) and it has a surprising amount of bass when used without a crossover... In the near field the direct radiator portion of BW makes it seem almost like its full range. Low volume listening is kinda fun although IMD becomes an issue pretty quick. How did you tune the rear chamber of this horn? For low mids to HF I would have thought a sealed back driver would have been closer to reactance annulled... I'm glad it's not as it's more fun to play with an adjustable back chamber volume.
I really like the Faital 3FE22 in a tractrix. It's quite pleasant.
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Ok, I'm going to make the parts express order. For two speakers..
(8) of the 6.5" drivers
https://www.parts-express.com/6-1-2-poly-cone-midbass-woofer-4-ohm--299-609
(2) Faitalpro
https://www.parts-express.com/faita...rofessional-full-range-woofer-8-ohm--294-1101
Anything else from P.E? This is my first complete DIY build so other than basic woodworking stuff in my garage is there anything else I should get? Like proper mounting screws etc?
Thanks
-Shawn
Edit: Oh and by the way, how do I throw separate subs into this mix? Do I need another minidsp?
(8) of the 6.5" drivers
https://www.parts-express.com/6-1-2-poly-cone-midbass-woofer-4-ohm--299-609
(2) Faitalpro
https://www.parts-express.com/faita...rofessional-full-range-woofer-8-ohm--294-1101
Anything else from P.E? This is my first complete DIY build so other than basic woodworking stuff in my garage is there anything else I should get? Like proper mounting screws etc?
Thanks
-Shawn
Edit: Oh and by the way, how do I throw separate subs into this mix? Do I need another minidsp?
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