Just one more thing .
Since I also have a Philips Sacd 1000, I decided to use the same outboard circuit for it.
I brought out the equivalent signals in the same way. It works like a charm.
After a lot of listening, I feel that the modified Philips sounds that much more refined and "realistic" than the cheaper Pioneer.
But the differences are not great. The Pioneer seems to do a better job on straight CDs but is not as good as the Philips on SACD, in my humble...
But, it's early days yet.
Regards
Since I also have a Philips Sacd 1000, I decided to use the same outboard circuit for it.
I brought out the equivalent signals in the same way. It works like a charm.
After a lot of listening, I feel that the modified Philips sounds that much more refined and "realistic" than the cheaper Pioneer.
But the differences are not great. The Pioneer seems to do a better job on straight CDs but is not as good as the Philips on SACD, in my humble...
But, it's early days yet.
Regards
Nic I really like from what I can see of you pioneer mod. I am thinking of moding this machine to and have been following the posts. Do you think it would be possible to get some schematics of what you did for the output stage? I also have one other question. I see you stayed with the use of a metal case still for the player. Howcome you never tried something like a full woodcase as I hear lots of people talk of how good it works with preamps and just use a central ground plane instead? Also do you think it possible to creat a multi-channel version?
Hi Humanjava,
First of all, in which modification are you interested? I described two in this thread- a solid state output using op amp/fet/buffered output and the latest one using tubes.
As for the choice of metal over wood for the casework, I use alluminum because I like to work with it and I like the look and feel. I also do a lot of woodwork and use it too for electronic projects, usually in combination with metal.
For the Pioneer, the choice came down to how to best integrate the faceplate with the controls. An alluminum faceplate with a cut-out for the controls was easy to handle with my tools and metal working knowhow. (read rudimentary metalworking skills)
N.
First of all, in which modification are you interested? I described two in this thread- a solid state output using op amp/fet/buffered output and the latest one using tubes.
As for the choice of metal over wood for the casework, I use alluminum because I like to work with it and I like the look and feel. I also do a lot of woodwork and use it too for electronic projects, usually in combination with metal.
For the Pioneer, the choice came down to how to best integrate the faceplate with the controls. An alluminum faceplate with a cut-out for the controls was easy to handle with my tools and metal working knowhow. (read rudimentary metalworking skills)
N.
Hey Nic,
I really like the idea of tubes as I find often I get a more natural sound. This is not always true of course depending on the task at hand. I am also under the belief that hardwork can lead to more rewarding products (esp. DIY).
I guess now I am wondering where I should or where you recomend starting on this project. Maybe some of the lessons I learn here I can take into the studio for the soundcards also?
I really like the idea of tubes as I find often I get a more natural sound. This is not always true of course depending on the task at hand. I am also under the belief that hardwork can lead to more rewarding products (esp. DIY).
I guess now I am wondering where I should or where you recomend starting on this project. Maybe some of the lessons I learn here I can take into the studio for the soundcards also?
Interesting thread this is.
Looks like there are a wide range of mods from capacitor upgrades(simple) to adding new chips(advanced).
I am interested in making the simple changes because I have never done SMD soldering. Mods like replacing caps, diodes, ICs(?). I dont want to make and install new boards or rewire stuff. Basically anything that does not involve SMD or complex changes to the existing circuit should be ok.
Could anyone please list all such mods that I could possibly make ?
Also, can someone please send me a service manual -
Thanks!
Looks like there are a wide range of mods from capacitor upgrades(simple) to adding new chips(advanced).
I am interested in making the simple changes because I have never done SMD soldering. Mods like replacing caps, diodes, ICs(?). I dont want to make and install new boards or rewire stuff. Basically anything that does not involve SMD or complex changes to the existing circuit should be ok.
Could anyone please list all such mods that I could possibly make ?
Also, can someone please send me a service manual -
Thanks!
Last edited by a moderator:
Hello Humanjava
I agree about tubes. The little fire-bottles sure can get closer to the real thing in most cases. They just do less wrong.
Anyway, where to start? Here is my 2 cent's worth.
Power supply upgrade, particularly to the switching PSU. Replace parts of it for the clock circuit, the dac(s) and the retained analog outputs. This means capacitor upgrades and replacements as outlined earlier in this thread by Vinnie, myself and others(see pg 8). New transformers and regulators for +5 and +3.3 volts to the dacs is a minimum.
These PSU upgrades should be done regardless of the output stage you use.
Since you want to use tubes for the output, you need to decide first on the topology--single ended or balanced output. There is a lot of information on the net. Check Thunderstone Audio for a balanced to single-ended solution, and check out Ultranalog and K&K audio for balanced transformer outputs.
Of course, with tubes, you will most likely need a new chassis outboard. There is barely enough room in the original to squeeze in the psu mods discussed above.
If you want to retain the original chassis, then you should beef it up. Check earlier posts on this thread for a neat solution.
If you want to do what I did and give the monster a new home, then that's a whole lotta work. Mine is a mass loaded top loader design, to eliminate the rattles in the disk sled. Well just trying to figure out how to make the disk spin took a lot of trial and error, frustration and compromises. Now it works, but I almost gave it up.
Anyway, I am going on too much.
N.
I agree about tubes. The little fire-bottles sure can get closer to the real thing in most cases. They just do less wrong.
Anyway, where to start? Here is my 2 cent's worth.
Power supply upgrade, particularly to the switching PSU. Replace parts of it for the clock circuit, the dac(s) and the retained analog outputs. This means capacitor upgrades and replacements as outlined earlier in this thread by Vinnie, myself and others(see pg 8). New transformers and regulators for +5 and +3.3 volts to the dacs is a minimum.
These PSU upgrades should be done regardless of the output stage you use.
Since you want to use tubes for the output, you need to decide first on the topology--single ended or balanced output. There is a lot of information on the net. Check Thunderstone Audio for a balanced to single-ended solution, and check out Ultranalog and K&K audio for balanced transformer outputs.
Of course, with tubes, you will most likely need a new chassis outboard. There is barely enough room in the original to squeeze in the psu mods discussed above.
If you want to retain the original chassis, then you should beef it up. Check earlier posts on this thread for a neat solution.
If you want to do what I did and give the monster a new home, then that's a whole lotta work. Mine is a mass loaded top loader design, to eliminate the rattles in the disk sled. Well just trying to figure out how to make the disk spin took a lot of trial and error, frustration and compromises. Now it works, but I almost gave it up.
Anyway, I am going on too much.
N.
Here my last version of the new op-amp section. I settled on using relay for the mute. The AD411 was too much complex and the relay is just fine. The mute is perfect.
Finally, after months of working on this simple project (there is nothing as a short project with DIY), I finally completed all the mods and start listening to the result.
I must say that this new op-amp section is much better than the original section in the player (even upgraded with OPA2604).
I`m using Jung Regulator and quality parts. The sound is much more rich. The original section sounds very good but present like a flat sound.
Now this little player is very acceptable. It sound as good as my Copland that cost 10X more
It is a project that I recommend very much. Thanks Nic for all your help.
Finally, after months of working on this simple project (there is nothing as a short project with DIY)
, I finally completed all the mods and start listening to the result.I must say that this new op-amp section is much better than the original section in the player (even upgraded with OPA2604).
I`m using Jung Regulator and quality parts. The sound is much more rich. The original section sounds very good but present like a flat sound.
Now this little player is very acceptable. It sound as good as my Copland that cost 10X more
It is a project that I recommend very much. Thanks Nic for all your help.
It's Alive! - New output stage.
Thanks for the kind words Sylvain.
I'm happy that you and your family like the result of all your work.
The schematic and board work look really clean and professional.
Most importantly, the sound is great.
So enjoy.
Nic.
ps. Here are a couple of SACDs and CDs that I found really natural sounding.
Jazz standards, big band and vocal:
Karrin Allyson - Sweet Home Cooking- Concord Jazz-SACD1010-6
Chesky 2K CD sampler- Chesky records- Various artists- Check out the Coryells cut 2 for incredibly clean bass and vocals.
Renee Rosnes - Life on Earth- Cd -EMI Music Canada
great jazz piano performances and sound
Lorraine Desmarais - Vision- CD - Les Disques Scherzo cd 1508
Great jazz piano, and electic guitars.
Thanks for the kind words Sylvain.
I'm happy that you and your family like the result of all your work.
The schematic and board work look really clean and professional.
Most importantly, the sound is great.
So enjoy.
Nic.
ps. Here are a couple of SACDs and CDs that I found really natural sounding.
Jazz standards, big band and vocal:
Karrin Allyson - Sweet Home Cooking- Concord Jazz-SACD1010-6
Chesky 2K CD sampler- Chesky records- Various artists- Check out the Coryells cut 2 for incredibly clean bass and vocals.
Renee Rosnes - Life on Earth- Cd -EMI Music Canada
great jazz piano performances and sound
Lorraine Desmarais - Vision- CD - Les Disques Scherzo cd 1508
Great jazz piano, and electic guitars.
Sorry, but I don't currently have operating scanner and/or
time to do so. But, frankly I was disappointed with the review.
It was quite long, had lots of measurements, but really not
a lot of content I considered useful. I would expect that
in a review of a product like this in a "sensible" magazine
(as opposed to high-end-efete mags), that he could somehow
solidly define it's virtues in performance vs. price as compared
to nearest equivalents. Other than to say it had better SACD
performance than he expected, you couldn't tell much. For
example, was its CD performance worse than a $150 CD-only
player? You couldn't tell.
Also, a repeat of a previous major blunder: they managed to
do the plots as virtually invisible light plot lines on moderately
visible grey grids. So you really can't even see much of the data.
time to do so. But, frankly I was disappointed with the review.
It was quite long, had lots of measurements, but really not
a lot of content I considered useful. I would expect that
in a review of a product like this in a "sensible" magazine
(as opposed to high-end-efete mags), that he could somehow
solidly define it's virtues in performance vs. price as compared
to nearest equivalents. Other than to say it had better SACD
performance than he expected, you couldn't tell much. For
example, was its CD performance worse than a $150 CD-only
player? You couldn't tell.
Also, a repeat of a previous major blunder: they managed to
do the plots as virtually invisible light plot lines on moderately
visible grey grids. So you really can't even see much of the data.
Is the 578A is the replacement for the 563A?
Cost seems to have certainly dropped as the regular Best Buy price for the 578A is $99.99.
I would also be interested in the schematics or service manual for the 563A. My email is evan.shultz@gmail.com. Thanks!
Cost seems to have certainly dropped as the regular Best Buy price for the 578A is $99.99.
I would also be interested in the schematics or service manual for the 563A. My email is evan.shultz@gmail.com. Thanks!
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