I guess you are right re: measurements. Based on advice from others here, listening experience and personal tastes counts more when it comes to speakers, even with the case of commercial ones. I haven’t seen measurements from the real Sibelius.
Good call on getting others who are better equipped to do the measurements. All the best 🙂
Good call on getting others who are better equipped to do the measurements. All the best 🙂
Room size, distance to speakers, music type, volume levels........
Your ears, your wallet.........
Enjoy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your ears, your wallet.........
Enjoy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
acko
When you have found the speaker, it is an eternal search to find the perfect amplifier.
Next is the room they will be placed in. The sound will be different when the dimensions of the room change. The room will affect the frequency curve so it will never be perfect ever. Even if you find the perfect speaker.
A perfect frequency curve on a loudspeaker does not exist in the whole world. It has not been invented yet.
I am +60 years and have not found the optimal speaker yet. Have been close, several times. You have to try on your hand, the only way to explore. If you like the sound, then it's ok. Not perfect but ok.
When you have found the speaker, it is an eternal search to find the perfect amplifier.
Next is the room they will be placed in. The sound will be different when the dimensions of the room change. The room will affect the frequency curve so it will never be perfect ever. Even if you find the perfect speaker.
A perfect frequency curve on a loudspeaker does not exist in the whole world. It has not been invented yet.
I am +60 years and have not found the optimal speaker yet. Have been close, several times. You have to try on your hand, the only way to explore. If you like the sound, then it's ok. Not perfect but ok.
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Thanks @LeifB60, all noted and much appreciated 🙏
As explained in my earlier post, the primary use for the Sibelius is for testing my DACs. Entertainment after hours, of course🙂
I was travelling alright with the current Jordan JX92s for the past decade but now seem not able to pick up details of the newer DACs. So, if I were to listen to what the speakers say then the new developments for DACs are not worth it. However, headphones telling a more favourable story so that changed the calculus. Let’s hear what the Sibelius say 😉
As explained in my earlier post, the primary use for the Sibelius is for testing my DACs. Entertainment after hours, of course🙂
I was travelling alright with the current Jordan JX92s for the past decade but now seem not able to pick up details of the newer DACs. So, if I were to listen to what the speakers say then the new developments for DACs are not worth it. However, headphones telling a more favourable story so that changed the calculus. Let’s hear what the Sibelius say 😉
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Nice that you mention DACs.
I have been in the same situation myself. The dace affects the sound. Don't know what kind of sound you are looking for. I suspect that you want a high-resolution sound where you want to get as much out as possible. Then there are those who want a musical sound. Details are not the most important thing, but you have to get involved. Stamp the beat.
I myself like details. Space in the soundscape. Magic. Stamp the beat.
I havn't found a review who give a 3d soundscape with Sibelius.
I have been in the same situation myself. The dace affects the sound. Don't know what kind of sound you are looking for. I suspect that you want a high-resolution sound where you want to get as much out as possible. Then there are those who want a musical sound. Details are not the most important thing, but you have to get involved. Stamp the beat.
I myself like details. Space in the soundscape. Magic. Stamp the beat.
I havn't found a review who give a 3d soundscape with Sibelius.
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Acko
If you are looking for speakers that disappear in the soundscape, you can look among those in smaller boxes.
MiniOnken from planet10, Maop10 are superb at this. There you can hear differences between different dacs .
If you are looking for speakers that disappear in the soundscape, you can look among those in smaller boxes.
MiniOnken from planet10, Maop10 are superb at this. There you can hear differences between different dacs .
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I build DACs for others as well so I need to cover all bases with tests as far as reasonably possible.
The Sibelius have landed here actually and waiting for clearance/delivery🙂
As for disappearing into soundscape there looks like one review for the Sibelius as shown in post #38
I will have a look at the miniOnkens, very interesting-thanks!
The Sibelius have landed here actually and waiting for clearance/delivery🙂
As for disappearing into soundscape there looks like one review for the Sibelius as shown in post #38
I will have a look at the miniOnkens, very interesting-thanks!
Speaker measurements are subjective and what really matters is what you are hearing with your own ears.
I remember listening to a little acoustic exercise that Wendy Carlos did on her “Secrets of Synthesis” CD from several years ago.
In it, she gives the audience an A/B comparison test listen of a pure Sine wave and if I remember correctly a Sawtooth wave from one of her Moog Modular oscillator modules.
She mentioned that on an oscilloscope they were very different, but when listened to, you could not perceive any difference in sound?
The lesson learned, don’t believe your test instruments as much as your own ears!!!
The bottom line and what really matters is, if you like what your own ears are hearing even if your test instruments are telling you something completely different!.
I remember listening to a little acoustic exercise that Wendy Carlos did on her “Secrets of Synthesis” CD from several years ago.
In it, she gives the audience an A/B comparison test listen of a pure Sine wave and if I remember correctly a Sawtooth wave from one of her Moog Modular oscillator modules.
She mentioned that on an oscilloscope they were very different, but when listened to, you could not perceive any difference in sound?
The lesson learned, don’t believe your test instruments as much as your own ears!!!
The bottom line and what really matters is, if you like what your own ears are hearing even if your test instruments are telling you something completely different!.
BTW, that was food for thought, because it’s easy to get carried away with test instrument results, especially on this forum.
Whats Interesting to me is that no two pairs of ears are alike and just because you think something sounds great, it may sound mediocre to someone else.
I get into this debate with a good friend of mine who swears on the sound of Klipsch speakers being the best sounding speakers ever made.
Of course I would disagree and present my own opinion of what I think is the best sounding speaker!!!
What I have come to realize, after several debates on the best speaker, is that the the Klipsch speakers sound good to my friend because he lost his mid to high end of his hearing due to old age and physical ear drum damage from not cleaning his ears properly with a Q tip.
In case you are not familiar with them, the Klipsch speakers use horns that boost that part of the audio spectrum.
Don't get me wrong, I also like Klipsch speakers but find them very loud in the mid to high end, probably due to their low sensitivity?
Since my hearing is still good in that range, I am not as big of a fan as my friend when it comes to Klipsch speakers Being the best sounding.
But that’s my long winded point, everyone has a different perception of what sounds good ( depending on their circumstances) and not necessarily corresponding to what test instruments tell you.
I guess in the end, it all comes down to that old saying about butt holes!!?
Whats Interesting to me is that no two pairs of ears are alike and just because you think something sounds great, it may sound mediocre to someone else.
I get into this debate with a good friend of mine who swears on the sound of Klipsch speakers being the best sounding speakers ever made.
Of course I would disagree and present my own opinion of what I think is the best sounding speaker!!!
What I have come to realize, after several debates on the best speaker, is that the the Klipsch speakers sound good to my friend because he lost his mid to high end of his hearing due to old age and physical ear drum damage from not cleaning his ears properly with a Q tip.
In case you are not familiar with them, the Klipsch speakers use horns that boost that part of the audio spectrum.
Don't get me wrong, I also like Klipsch speakers but find them very loud in the mid to high end, probably due to their low sensitivity?
Since my hearing is still good in that range, I am not as big of a fan as my friend when it comes to Klipsch speakers Being the best sounding.
But that’s my long winded point, everyone has a different perception of what sounds good ( depending on their circumstances) and not necessarily corresponding to what test instruments tell you.
I guess in the end, it all comes down to that old saying about butt holes!!?
yup, it totally depends on what floats your boat.
I enjoy that, unlike meter readers demanding flat response eq'd @ your listening position (yuck).
I look forward to the subjective comments, especially comparisons, even if they are not mine.
That's why I spend more time here than audioscience review.
Trust your ears, not every setup is best at everything.
That's why you can have multiple speakers that you can swap out.
But resetting bass/treble/loudness knobs get to be a pain.......
I enjoy that, unlike meter readers demanding flat response eq'd @ your listening position (yuck).
I look forward to the subjective comments, especially comparisons, even if they are not mine.
That's why I spend more time here than audioscience review.
Trust your ears, not every setup is best at everything.
That's why you can have multiple speakers that you can swap out.
But resetting bass/treble/loudness knobs get to be a pain.......
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Measurements are not subjective. For a given set of measurements (and assuming those are done properly, i.e. no silly mistakes made in the setup, which can be discounted for the purpose of argument since nobody would claim badly performed measurements are valid), then the data simply is what it is. The kind of response people like / enjoy / prefer is subjective however, as is (to a point anyway) how people interpret that data. A flat axial response for instance is not necessarily a target objective, since a single axis measurement alone takes no account for the off-axis / power response / polars, HD / IMD characteristics etc., all of which can and do significantly change presentation even if the axial response itself is unchanged. So they are, or can be, an excellent guide providing you know what to look for, and how comprehensive a data set you take. Like most things, the more effort you put in, the more you tend to get out.
One of the ironies is that you can find situations where some state 'measurements are useless because everybody who takes them is only interested in xyz' (which is nonsense), while some others like to claim 'anybody who doesn't align every single system to a [their] given set of prejuduces is an idiot'. They're both completely wrong, ironically enough for the same reason, even though they're coming at it from opposite ends of the spectrum. And at the end of the day -people like what they like. Audio's a hobby, not a dictatorship.
One of the ironies is that you can find situations where some state 'measurements are useless because everybody who takes them is only interested in xyz' (which is nonsense), while some others like to claim 'anybody who doesn't align every single system to a [their] given set of prejuduces is an idiot'. They're both completely wrong, ironically enough for the same reason, even though they're coming at it from opposite ends of the spectrum. And at the end of the day -people like what they like. Audio's a hobby, not a dictatorship.
So right. A hobby that is full of surprises.
Easy to get lost. We think so differently. One loves a type of speaker, the other hates them.
Wondering if several people can have the same speaker as a favorite? In the absence of alternatives, it may become so. We have too many options to choose from sometimes.
We want to rank speakers by price, but that factor is not entirely decisive. There are cheap ones that can do what you need.
One solution is to have several pairs of speakers. You can switch between them depending on your mood and desire. All speakers can have advantages and disadvantages.
Good point about hearing loss affecting subjective review. Time to get a proper hearing check myself … hey, that sounds like measurement 😉
Agreed.
Since nowadays I started playing around with DSP (moode with CamilaDSP), I would add that as another parameter that allows creation of pleasing/personal sounds.
If your path starts with a digital signal then at least EQing should be fairly easy. For example, I also combine different speakers with digital crossovers to create very different soundscapes.
The interpretation often is.
And with loudspeakers it is easy to screw up and get invalid results.
dave
The Sibelius down under🙂
Surprisingly no test certificates or any measurement data for a commercial product that has been claimed to have undergone multiple tests… measurements are not everything but in engineering it is a good starting point for evaluation
Surprisingly no test certificates or any measurement data for a commercial product that has been claimed to have undergone multiple tests… measurements are not everything but in engineering it is a good starting point for evaluation
