Question: What should I listen to to give me a basis of comparison for the SR-71s?
Now that I'm nearly done, I've been thinking of going to a high-end-ish Hi-Fi store and demoing some speakers that might be in the same league as the ones I'm building.
Can anyone suggest particular commercial speakers to listen to that might be similar in quality?
I can't very well gloat if I don't know what I'm competing against, can I?
If this is just too tough a question, tell me that too.
Now that I'm nearly done, I've been thinking of going to a high-end-ish Hi-Fi store and demoing some speakers that might be in the same league as the ones I'm building.
Can anyone suggest particular commercial speakers to listen to that might be similar in quality?
I can't very well gloat if I don't know what I'm competing against, can I?
If this is just too tough a question, tell me that too.
Stew-
Dave from PDX here. My offer still stands regarding comparing my older DIY MTM speakers to yours. I"m sure yours will sound better but it would be interesting in any case. It would give you a benchmark albeit not with a high-end retail model. Plus, it would be nice to to hear what a Zaph design sounds like.
Pretty cool to see yours all coming together. I have always liked the natural appearance of the Watco products.
I could be wrong (and frequently am) but I thought the gasket for the speaker went underneath the flange of the driver, in the recessed portion.
Dave from PDX here. My offer still stands regarding comparing my older DIY MTM speakers to yours. I"m sure yours will sound better but it would be interesting in any case. It would give you a benchmark albeit not with a high-end retail model. Plus, it would be nice to to hear what a Zaph design sounds like.
Pretty cool to see yours all coming together. I have always liked the natural appearance of the Watco products.
I could be wrong (and frequently am) but I thought the gasket for the speaker went underneath the flange of the driver, in the recessed portion.
DavidLR said:
Dave, we can absolutely do that, and I've been keeping you in mind while I finish the speakers. I do want to see how the other half listens, however, so if anyone has a commercial benchmark speaker to suggest I'd appreciate it.
I can easily fix this, if needed. Madisound provided ample weatherstripping, and it is very changable. Can anyone demonstrate how I should be doing this? Or is any position for the stripping OK if I get a nice, solid airtight seal?
Please don't take my word for it only. On my first pair of speakers, if I remember right, I use a double-sided foam gasket tape about 1/8" thick, installed in the routed out speaker flange area.
Stew you look like a fighter pilot with all that PPE on. Yep having your weather stripping there may block air flow. Puttin it in the routered flange you recessed may work betta. Its looking gooooooooooooooooood thou.
I take it after the learning curve you are ready to go into full production on this style speaker.
I take it after the learning curve you are ready to go into full production on this style speaker.
On Zaph's website one of his systems uses the following drivers-the
Seas L15RLYP / 27TFFC. As a point of comparison for this design he references some $1800 Joseph Audio RM7si Signature Mk2s.
Don't know a thing about them but it could be a starting point.
Seas L15RLYP / 27TFFC. As a point of comparison for this design he references some $1800 Joseph Audio RM7si Signature Mk2s.
Don't know a thing about them but it could be a starting point.
Listen to this.
http://www.proac-loudspeakers.com/studio100.php
and you will be quite surprised as to how good of a sound you got.
The sell for $1800 + tax now days.
http://www.proac-loudspeakers.com/studio100.php
and you will be quite surprised as to how good of a sound you got.
The sell for $1800 + tax now days.
R-Carpenter said:
Bass/Midrange Driver 6 1⁄2” (165mm) treated cone with special centre pole plug
Tweeter 1” (25mm) soft fabric dome with ferrofluid and rear loading. Mirror image offset.
Yup, that's a 2-way with close specs. Thanks, I'll look for it!
Re: Test & Assembly
Don't worry yet - if the speakers are just on a table they won't sound anything like what they'll sound in the finished system. This is because (and I'm sure there are other reasons):
1) There's no baffle, so the rear wave from the drivers won't be separated, and will interfere with the sound coming from the front.
2) The air mass in the box acts as a 'spring', pressing against the midbass driver (and the air mass in the port moves to create more bass at the tuning frequency).
DavidLR is right - you want to form a gasket under the flange of the driver, so you need to stick the foam strip around the face of the rebate you've cut. If the rebates aren't that wide, you may end up with the tape covering the screw holes, but you can carefully drill through them (taking care not to snag the foam and wrap it round the drill bit)!
IRC, Krutke (Zaph) had made a simple compass style knife cutter that allowed him to cut rings from sheets of foam, and just pop them on the rebate (almost like a washer), as this is easier than sticking the foam tape in a curve.
Things I'm not 100% sure about:
1) Putting the foam tape where you've put it may adversely affect airflow for the midbass driver.
2) Getting a really good seal between the driver and box is more important in a sealed system, where you don't want any leaks. In a ported system it's probably less critical.
StewLG said:
Don't worry yet - if the speakers are just on a table they won't sound anything like what they'll sound in the finished system. This is because (and I'm sure there are other reasons):
1) There's no baffle, so the rear wave from the drivers won't be separated, and will interfere with the sound coming from the front.
2) The air mass in the box acts as a 'spring', pressing against the midbass driver (and the air mass in the port moves to create more bass at the tuning frequency).
StewLG said:
DavidLR is right - you want to form a gasket under the flange of the driver, so you need to stick the foam strip around the face of the rebate you've cut. If the rebates aren't that wide, you may end up with the tape covering the screw holes, but you can carefully drill through them (taking care not to snag the foam and wrap it round the drill bit)!
IRC, Krutke (Zaph) had made a simple compass style knife cutter that allowed him to cut rings from sheets of foam, and just pop them on the rebate (almost like a washer), as this is easier than sticking the foam tape in a curve.
Things I'm not 100% sure about:
1) Putting the foam tape where you've put it may adversely affect airflow for the midbass driver.
2) Getting a really good seal between the driver and box is more important in a sealed system, where you don't want any leaks. In a ported system it's probably less critical.
Re: Re: Test & Assembly
Completely agreed on 1.
I disagree on 2. Not sure if it's more or less important in the sealed speaker but it is important in a vented enclosure. Cheap gasket tape does a miracle job on that.
Completely agreed on 1.
I disagree on 2. Not sure if it's more or less important in the sealed speaker but it is important in a vented enclosure. Cheap gasket tape does a miracle job on that.
Re: Re: Re: Test & Assembly
Interesting.
My understanding of ported/vented systems is that at very low frequencies (below the port tuning) the port just behaves as a hole, and the port air mass follows the enclosure air mass. This results in a negative pressure wave coming from the port, and thus reduces bass below the tuning frequency (which is why the bass drops off faster in a ported system).
At high frequencies, the oscillation of air is faster, and the air mass in the port has too much inertia to respond to the enclosure air mass, and the box behaves as if it were sealed.
At the tuning frequency, the air mass in the port vibrates against the enclosure air mass, but in opposite phase (as the rear wave from the driver is delayed). This results in it being in phase with the driver, and reinforces bass.
I guess that at the tuning frequency (and above) there will be pressure in the enclosure, so perhaps sealing the drivers to the box does matter every bit as much as a sealed (infinite baffle) unit; I just wasn't sure if that was the case.
The irony is that I've always sealed drivers (using cheap gasket tape!) regardless of whether I'm making a ported or sealed box. Just force of habit I guess.
R-Carpenter said:
Interesting.
My understanding of ported/vented systems is that at very low frequencies (below the port tuning) the port just behaves as a hole, and the port air mass follows the enclosure air mass. This results in a negative pressure wave coming from the port, and thus reduces bass below the tuning frequency (which is why the bass drops off faster in a ported system).
At high frequencies, the oscillation of air is faster, and the air mass in the port has too much inertia to respond to the enclosure air mass, and the box behaves as if it were sealed.
At the tuning frequency, the air mass in the port vibrates against the enclosure air mass, but in opposite phase (as the rear wave from the driver is delayed). This results in it being in phase with the driver, and reinforces bass.
I guess that at the tuning frequency (and above) there will be pressure in the enclosure, so perhaps sealing the drivers to the box does matter every bit as much as a sealed (infinite baffle) unit; I just wasn't sure if that was the case.
The irony is that I've always sealed drivers (using cheap gasket tape!) regardless of whether I'm making a ported or sealed box. Just force of habit I guess.
As for sealing drivers in a vented enclosure, put on some low test tones with poorly sealed drivers. Whistling, chuffing, all kinds of funky noises will be apparent. Don't ask me how I know. 😉
Final assembly, soldering, and stuffing
I woke up this morning and took off the bandages, soldered in the terminal blocks.
I took everyone's advice about the driver sealing:
I then put the drivers in one cabinet, and as I was tightening the final screw, realized I had forgotten the acoustic fill. Sigh. Take out the driver again, reinstall stuffing:
And a few minutes later, I was finally listening:
I even got the IR repeater working on the Squeezebox, so my ancient Pioneer VSX-4500S (Anyone know RMS on this thing? It predates available PDF docs) is now slaved to it for totally minimal control.
I woke up this morning and took off the bandages, soldered in the terminal blocks.
I took everyone's advice about the driver sealing:
I then put the drivers in one cabinet, and as I was tightening the final screw, realized I had forgotten the acoustic fill. Sigh. Take out the driver again, reinstall stuffing:
And a few minutes later, I was finally listening:
I even got the IR repeater working on the Squeezebox, so my ancient Pioneer VSX-4500S (Anyone know RMS on this thing? It predates available PDF docs) is now slaved to it for totally minimal control.
StewLG,
how long are you going to make us wait till you give us your listening impressions??? Also what kind of dog do you own?
how long are you going to make us wait till you give us your listening impressions??? Also what kind of dog do you own?
Yes, I have a dog.
To be fair, don't I have to wait until break-in is over? (How long does that take anyhow?)
We have a black female whippet. It's not topical, so I'll only put one picture in this thread:
A bunch more here if you care. The breed does 35+ MPH, although we've never clocked her as an individual:
http://s287.photobucket.com/albums/ll140/StewLG/Leda%20the%20Whippet/?albumview=slideshow
peter_m said:
To be fair, don't I have to wait until break-in is over? (How long does that take anyhow?)
We have a black female whippet. It's not topical, so I'll only put one picture in this thread:
A bunch more here if you care. The breed does 35+ MPH, although we've never clocked her as an individual:
http://s287.photobucket.com/albums/ll140/StewLG/Leda%20the%20Whippet/?albumview=slideshow
Both?
God, I never thought of using it as a pepper mill! You guys are full of great suggestions. It never worked very well as a penis pump anyway.
MJL21193 said:Looking good!
BTW, this a penis pump or a pepper mill? 😀
God, I never thought of using it as a pepper mill! You guys are full of great suggestions. It never worked very well as a penis pump anyway.
Re: Yes, I have a dog.
I think breaking-in would affect the lower range mostly. How long depends on how loud and how often you listen to them. Some people run white noise through them and leave the house. I would make sure to take the dog out as well.
Gorgeous dog. Whippets are in deed very fast. Only seen one in the last 5 years I've been going to dog parks. How does she adapt to the winters? Are they as shy and reserved as some people say?
Peter
PS: congrats on the successful build!
StewLG said:
I think breaking-in would affect the lower range mostly. How long depends on how loud and how often you listen to them. Some people run white noise through them and leave the house. I would make sure to take the dog out as well.
Gorgeous dog. Whippets are in deed very fast. Only seen one in the last 5 years I've been going to dog parks. How does she adapt to the winters? Are they as shy and reserved as some people say?
Peter
PS: congrats on the successful build!
Re: Re: Yes, I have a dog.
Doing this has absolutely no WAF. I'll just have to tough it out with actual music.
Hates the cold & wet, so, hardly an ideal dog for Portland. They love comfort - fluffy beds, heater vents, cuddling, etc. Most are fairly aloof, but ours is atypical in several ways, and she's very social with humans.
How did you know we had a dog, anyhow?
peter_m said:
Doing this has absolutely no WAF. I'll just have to tough it out with actual music.
Hates the cold & wet, so, hardly an ideal dog for Portland. They love comfort - fluffy beds, heater vents, cuddling, etc. Most are fairly aloof, but ours is atypical in several ways, and she's very social with humans.
How did you know we had a dog, anyhow?
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