Re: Re: Re: Re: Yes, I have a dog.
Oh! No, that's for the toddler. The dog would never tolerate being tied down like that.
peter_m said:
Oh! No, that's for the toddler. The dog would never tolerate being tied down like that.
DavidLR said:
Squeezebox. You can see it on the windowsill above:
http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_squeezebox.html
I have a bunch of their hardware, going back to the first generation. (I've bought each unit on closeout, refurbished, or used, since as much as I love them I think they are a bit overpriced.) I also wrote a popular plug-in a while back.
If you mean, my music source originally, it's a mix of FLAC (lossless CD quality), high bitrate VBR (180 kbit+?) or CBR (256+) MP3s, and a sprinkling of 192 kbit stuff that's my minimum standard.
DavidLR said:
That new Diana Krall / Aphex Twin remix project, Captain Bogg & Salty's Zappa cover album, Boyz II Men - Celtic Christmaxxx, some old error and response messages off a 5ESS switch, Dangermouse's Muppet Movie thing ("The Green Album"), The Beatles albums as 64 kbit MP3s (I love that lean codec / "glarbed" sound), field recordings I made of freight trains at Chimney Park.
Nice built. I have SA-71 and LOVING it. I would like to know your impressions as well. It definitely has its strengths and weaknesses. Mostly strength. I find it very sensitive to placement.
StewLG said:
Squeezebox now sports a Logitech logo??? I wonder how long till we see them at Costco?
I haven't experimented allot with MP3 but I usualy use 192VBR from within iTunes and sometimes from Lame encoder. Do you thing 192 VBR is close enough to FLAC?
Peter
Peter
Re: Re: Re: Re: Test & Assembly
I always fit drivers very tight almost to the point then you have to force the driver in to the cut out. Notice “almost”. Even though the baskets are metal, there's always a chance to stress the frame and I just never want to take the chance. Anyhow, back to the subject. All correct and well about the port but then the driver isn't sealed, air escapes through the holes, other then port. Box volume isn't a V any longer. It is a minimal pressure loss but it makes a difference. Try to take out the woofer from one of your ported speakers and the slowly reinsert it in. As you do that, listen to the low end.
Any leakage from the ported speaker (except the port) will change box volume and there for change the tuning frequency and the port response.
BTW, nice build. The only thing I would change, is the terminal on the back. A pair of nice binding posts would look great, eliminate the necessary for cut out and be easier to install.
sploo said:
I always fit drivers very tight almost to the point then you have to force the driver in to the cut out. Notice “almost”. Even though the baskets are metal, there's always a chance to stress the frame and I just never want to take the chance. Anyhow, back to the subject. All correct and well about the port but then the driver isn't sealed, air escapes through the holes, other then port. Box volume isn't a V any longer. It is a minimal pressure loss but it makes a difference. Try to take out the woofer from one of your ported speakers and the slowly reinsert it in. As you do that, listen to the low end.
Any leakage from the ported speaker (except the port) will change box volume and there for change the tuning frequency and the port response.
BTW, nice build. The only thing I would change, is the terminal on the back. A pair of nice binding posts would look great, eliminate the necessary for cut out and be easier to install.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Yes, I have a dog.
We can get speakers face to face very close together, reverse the polarity on one of them, run noise, and throw a blanket over them. Most sound will cancel out, and what's left is going to be muffled.
Try it.
peter_m said:
We can get speakers face to face very close together, reverse the polarity on one of them, run noise, and throw a blanket over them. Most sound will cancel out, and what's left is going to be muffled.
Try it.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Test & Assembly
They came with the Madisound kit. I tried to step up to the flush-mounting challenge, but failed. Oh well - I'll do better next time, although I'll probably go with just binding posts as you suggest.
R-Carpenter said:
They came with the Madisound kit. I tried to step up to the flush-mounting challenge, but failed. Oh well - I'll do better next time, although I'll probably go with just binding posts as you suggest.
I do think MP3 is very useful
That'd be so great. At $215 they'd be worth every penny. Maybe in a few years.
Close enough for most things? I think so anyway. For the car or iPod it's really hard to make a serious argument for lossless, which doesn't make mean I wouldn't welcome widespread adoption of an open source lossless standard like FLAC for portable/car devices (and they'd all need to start handling DVD-R too, but, I digress...)
Most of my experience listening to MP3s has been through 2.1 self-powered computer speakers (Logitech Z2200, Klipsch Promedia 2.1) or the car (I bought the very first car MP3 CD-R unit produced from Crutchfield and installed it myself. I was motivated.) And in that context, I found I thought I could sometimes detect a very slight loss of detail, usually in the high end. I had to look for it, but I thought I could find it. With the bitrate comfortably north of 192, I seldom found this really bothersome. Note that I've never ABX'd this, which would be the real test.
Now that I have $400 of Norwegian drivers in heavy cabinets with 100 watts behind them, that could certainly change. We'll see if I find it any more objectionable in a few months.
If you are trying to make a decision about what to rip, don't. Rip to both high-bitrate VBR MP3 and FLAC. That's what I do. You can't put FLAC in your car or iPod, and terabytes are cheap ($200 @ Fry's last time I paid attention).
peter_m said:
That'd be so great. At $215 they'd be worth every penny. Maybe in a few years.
Close enough for most things? I think so anyway. For the car or iPod it's really hard to make a serious argument for lossless, which doesn't make mean I wouldn't welcome widespread adoption of an open source lossless standard like FLAC for portable/car devices (and they'd all need to start handling DVD-R too, but, I digress...)
Most of my experience listening to MP3s has been through 2.1 self-powered computer speakers (Logitech Z2200, Klipsch Promedia 2.1) or the car (I bought the very first car MP3 CD-R unit produced from Crutchfield and installed it myself. I was motivated.) And in that context, I found I thought I could sometimes detect a very slight loss of detail, usually in the high end. I had to look for it, but I thought I could find it. With the bitrate comfortably north of 192, I seldom found this really bothersome. Note that I've never ABX'd this, which would be the real test.
Now that I have $400 of Norwegian drivers in heavy cabinets with 100 watts behind them, that could certainly change. We'll see if I find it any more objectionable in a few months.
If you are trying to make a decision about what to rip, don't. Rip to both high-bitrate VBR MP3 and FLAC. That's what I do. You can't put FLAC in your car or iPod, and terabytes are cheap ($200 @ Fry's last time I paid attention).
DavidLR said:
David, I sent you an email via the forum software about coming over to hear the speakers.
Re: I do think MP3 is very useful
Peter
Do let us know. From a PC source, you can A/B with Foobar 😀salas [/i][B] We can get speakers face to face very close together said:
I agree FLAC would be nice but it is not wide spread. I'll waid for your A/B test and do everything in MP3 once and for all
Peter
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Test & Assembly
Yep, disasters are always the best teacher. 😉
It's just a pain that they often come with noise, broken stuff, and the need for bandages.
Stew - well done. They look great, and considering you've been doing lots of new techniques, you should be very pleased with what you've achieved. Now enjoy!
Until you remember you wanted to paint/veneer, then you cry. 😀
Being serious for a moment, there's a guy on one of the US based forums (Audioholics) that is very keen on the idea of loosely coupling drivers to the box (still getting a good air seal, but with lots of suspension). The idea is to reduce cabinet vibrations caused by the driver, and I believe is a feature on some B&W designs. It's not something I've yet tried, and I suspect it would need accelerometers to measure any differences, but it is a pointer to not screwing drivers down too tight.
Good point about the holes. Yea, it's obvious when I think about it - the box volume and air mass combined with the port air mass is very important, so having leaks through the driver flange would be a problem.
stangbat said:
Yep, disasters are always the best teacher. 😉
It's just a pain that they often come with noise, broken stuff, and the need for bandages.
StewLG said:
Stew - well done. They look great, and considering you've been doing lots of new techniques, you should be very pleased with what you've achieved. Now enjoy!
R-Carpenter said:
Until you remember you wanted to paint/veneer, then you cry. 😀
Being serious for a moment, there's a guy on one of the US based forums (Audioholics) that is very keen on the idea of loosely coupling drivers to the box (still getting a good air seal, but with lots of suspension). The idea is to reduce cabinet vibrations caused by the driver, and I believe is a feature on some B&W designs. It's not something I've yet tried, and I suspect it would need accelerometers to measure any differences, but it is a pointer to not screwing drivers down too tight.
Good point about the holes. Yea, it's obvious when I think about it - the box volume and air mass combined with the port air mass is very important, so having leaks through the driver flange would be a problem.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Test & Assembly
The right thing is to make a driver loosely coupled to the baffle, not to the box. The driver has to be absolutely rock steady, not to lose motional energy in a mechanical way. It will detract from sonic energy. It will lose leading edge and detail, subjectively.
We can couple it from its back on to some internal structure, and let the front flange resiliently press (circumferentially and air tight, no screws) on to the baffle. That way it will resonate better with the box. The energy that goes to the baffle through screws is sharply transfered in high Q resonances and radiates stronger because the baffle is what we face. The other way, it dissipates in the box with wider Q and with less frontal emission.
sploo said:
The right thing is to make a driver loosely coupled to the baffle, not to the box. The driver has to be absolutely rock steady, not to lose motional energy in a mechanical way. It will detract from sonic energy. It will lose leading edge and detail, subjectively.
We can couple it from its back on to some internal structure, and let the front flange resiliently press (circumferentially and air tight, no screws) on to the baffle. That way it will resonate better with the box. The energy that goes to the baffle through screws is sharply transfered in high Q resonances and radiates stronger because the baffle is what we face. The other way, it dissipates in the box with wider Q and with less frontal emission.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Test & Assembly
Until you remember you wanted to paint/veneer, then you cry. 😀
I know I am going to get my behind kicked for this but, ha ha I own a woodworking shop with high tech spraying equipment.
No, seriously, I veneer boxes way before cutting driver holes. I actually precut the oversize panels and veneer them before the box is even assembled.
After the assembly, drivers are taken out, holes are masked off and only the it gets finished.
😀
Until you remember you wanted to paint/veneer, then you cry. 😀
I know I am going to get my behind kicked for this but, ha ha I own a woodworking shop with high tech spraying equipment.
No, seriously, I veneer boxes way before cutting driver holes. I actually precut the oversize panels and veneer them before the box is even assembled.
After the assembly, drivers are taken out, holes are masked off and only the it gets finished.
😀
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Test & Assembly
Pls take note he(R.C.) has build many pair of speakers...this is to make yr life easy...
R-Carpenter said:
Pls take note he(R.C.) has build many pair of speakers...this is to make yr life easy...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Test & Assembly
Hi Sploo and Salas,
Yes, well covered on Linkwitz site that it's best to solidly couple the magnet of the driver to the box structure (via a brace) and leave the flange loosely attached with a gasket behind. This will prevent the baffle from vibrating from the drivers motion.
This is, of course, difficult to do effectively in anything other than a dipole.
sploo said:
salas said:
Hi Sploo and Salas,
Yes, well covered on Linkwitz site that it's best to solidly couple the magnet of the driver to the box structure (via a brace) and leave the flange loosely attached with a gasket behind. This will prevent the baffle from vibrating from the drivers motion.
This is, of course, difficult to do effectively in anything other than a dipole.
We can do it in cabinet speakers by employing removable back panels for access. I didn't know that Linkwitz talked about it in detail. Do you have a link?
peter_m said:
Thanks. I read it. He is in agreement, and his sonic findings are correct.
Such concepts of mounting are obscure, but you must have seen them sometimes in full range forums. DIYers do it, especially in Japan.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Test & Assembly
Yea, I wasn't very clear with my choice of language - by box I meant baffle (don't read what I write, read what I was thinking 😉).
I was going to mention Linkwitz's Orion design, but it's already been posted. I've seen a few box designs (the Orion is open baffle for those that don't know) using an arm inside the box to hold the driver by the magnet. As Salas has noted - a removable rear panel is usually required.
I did see a design where there was a long bolt in the bottom of the box, which tightened a clamp inside the box, so the driver could be slipped onto the baffle, then secured externally.
I'm pretty certain the original guy I mentioned was using a very deep flange rebate (with lots of padding) then long bolts through the driver, and a stack of foam/rubber washers on the inside. I presume this would need rear access to get right, but as long as the holes in the baffles for the bolts were large enough to stop the bolts contacting the baffle, I'd guess it would work well.
Just starting my butt kicking machine now... 😀
Lucky guy. I use my back garden (yard) like Ant (ShinOBIWAN). The number of good spraying days here in the UK are somewhat limited!
As you're veneering before construction; do you apply extra veneer on the edges once the box is finished, or do you leave them uncovered?
I've used real wood veneers - very nice quality, but they can be a pig to cut and route without splitting and chipping. Some pics and info here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108069&highlight=
salas said:
MJL21193 said:
Yea, I wasn't very clear with my choice of language - by box I meant baffle (don't read what I write, read what I was thinking 😉).
I was going to mention Linkwitz's Orion design, but it's already been posted. I've seen a few box designs (the Orion is open baffle for those that don't know) using an arm inside the box to hold the driver by the magnet. As Salas has noted - a removable rear panel is usually required.
I did see a design where there was a long bolt in the bottom of the box, which tightened a clamp inside the box, so the driver could be slipped onto the baffle, then secured externally.
I'm pretty certain the original guy I mentioned was using a very deep flange rebate (with lots of padding) then long bolts through the driver, and a stack of foam/rubber washers on the inside. I presume this would need rear access to get right, but as long as the holes in the baffles for the bolts were large enough to stop the bolts contacting the baffle, I'd guess it would work well.
R-Carpenter said:
Just starting my butt kicking machine now... 😀
Lucky guy. I use my back garden (yard) like Ant (ShinOBIWAN). The number of good spraying days here in the UK are somewhat limited!
R-Carpenter said:
As you're veneering before construction; do you apply extra veneer on the edges once the box is finished, or do you leave them uncovered?
I've used real wood veneers - very nice quality, but they can be a pig to cut and route without splitting and chipping. Some pics and info here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108069&highlight=
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