I could see how software could catch the bottom left of that board as a separate board and think it was two panelized boards, but if anyone physically looked they would know better.
While it really wouldn't make any difference for the manufacturing process, panelized boards are an upcharge they would want to catch as it would be extra profit for them in a market that doesn't have much room for profit.
While it really wouldn't make any difference for the manufacturing process, panelized boards are an upcharge they would want to catch as it would be extra profit for them in a market that doesn't have much room for profit.
As a follow up on my last post, and particularly for @agdr and @erik777, I checked with the guy "Lambo", and he said his website is being updated, and it does seem to have some layout problems. But it does seem to work. If you contact them, feel free to ask for Lambo and mention you got a recommendation from me, Randy Constan. There is still a language barrier,but bottom line the work has been good so far. I even had them do a complex 4 layer board, and also a "mechanical only" board, which is basically just solder mask, drill holes, and silkscreen, for use as a control panel. Took a little back and fourth to reach an understanding, but the work was good and the price competitive.
PCBMil
PCBMil
Here you go, Gerbers posted below.
Just a word of caution though for anyone who might be interested in the project itself, this is still a developmental board turn and will likely have circuit and/or layout errors. Please wait for me to post a final set of Gerbers in the project thread in the headphone forum before having a board made.
The Gerbers were produced using the latest V7.4 of Eagle Pro, using the Eagle 4-layer CAM job file out at Seeed Studio here:
Fusion PCB Order Submission Guidelines ? Feedback & Ideas for seeed
Scroll down about 2/3 of the way to the heading "[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]You can generate your Gerber file through following link" where they have the 2 and 4 layer Eagle CAM job files for download.
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Hi, I just tried it. Eagle comes back with a warning pop-up saying "no layers are active".
A very good PCBway experience this time!
As per the posts above I was going to wait a year to try pcbway again, but a project came up and I couldn't resist the 1 week turn-around and good price, lol.
I'm happy to report that I had zero trouble this time and the board is just excellent.
Their $25 DHL shipping had it to me in 3 days (China to the US). I notice that pcbway tenders the shipment to DHL right there in China. Things start moving immediately. Seeed Studio, the other outfit I've been using in China, charges more for DHL but theirs takes typically 4-7 days to get to Hong Kong by racing turtle (!), then from there is tendered to DHL and off it goes. Express shipping really isn't express if there is nearly a week delay in the express shipper getting the package from when the boards are noted as "finished" (Seeed Studio). DHL had the boards the day after the boards were reported as done with pcbway.
The board I sent is 4 layers and and is fairly large again, 120 x 130mm. Works just great. I've built it up and havent discovered any fabrication imperfections at all. No missing pads, no plating problems. This board has plated slots again for a power jack. Once again they came out just fine. I didn't send in any special manufacturing instructions for the slots either.
This time I put alignment text on the board, as shown in the photos below. The next-to-last photo has the word "LAYER" on each layer. In the last photo I have that word on all 4 layers right over each other so any alignment problems might show up. I did the same with the top and bottom silk screen although it doesn't show up well in the photos.
As per the posts above I was going to wait a year to try pcbway again, but a project came up and I couldn't resist the 1 week turn-around and good price, lol.
I'm happy to report that I had zero trouble this time and the board is just excellent.
Their $25 DHL shipping had it to me in 3 days (China to the US). I notice that pcbway tenders the shipment to DHL right there in China. Things start moving immediately. Seeed Studio, the other outfit I've been using in China, charges more for DHL but theirs takes typically 4-7 days to get to Hong Kong by racing turtle (!), then from there is tendered to DHL and off it goes. Express shipping really isn't express if there is nearly a week delay in the express shipper getting the package from when the boards are noted as "finished" (Seeed Studio). DHL had the boards the day after the boards were reported as done with pcbway.
The board I sent is 4 layers and and is fairly large again, 120 x 130mm. Works just great. I've built it up and havent discovered any fabrication imperfections at all. No missing pads, no plating problems. This board has plated slots again for a power jack. Once again they came out just fine. I didn't send in any special manufacturing instructions for the slots either.
This time I put alignment text on the board, as shown in the photos below. The next-to-last photo has the word "LAYER" on each layer. In the last photo I have that word on all 4 layers right over each other so any alignment problems might show up. I did the same with the top and bottom silk screen although it doesn't show up well in the photos.
Attachments
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I tried Shenzhen2u for the first time, and it's been a bit hit and miss.
The reason I went for them was that PCBway start charging an awful lot for multiple PCBs.
Order 10 pieces of one design or 5 pieces of two designs of the same physical size, shipping shouldn't change: volume and weight are the same. But they add another $15-20 or so to the shipping charges as well as obviously increasing manufacturing costs.
My other slight annoyance is with DHL, I get charged import duty and administration charges which hike up the price further. It's still not "expensive" of course, but just not as "cheap as chips" as you first believe. The $25 shipping turns into around $50-60 once our HMRC tax man has had a look - always badly calculating the VAT. Fortunately, I'm VAT registered, so I get some of that back, but can't escape from the £10 administration fee DHL tack on each order.
So I tried Shenzhen2u. Their shipping was far cheaper: I chose tracked order, but not a courrier. Took around 6-7 days, so maybe one or two more than DHL, but for around a third of the price.
The boards however, whilst precise, good silkscreen, accurate holes / pads lining up, the solderability is really bad in places. I've tried cleaning them with IPA first to ensure they're free of any grease or other residues, but some pads just refuse solder. This was with their cheap leaded HASA finish which ironically I thought would be easier to work with, but it's proving the contrary.
What's really strange is that it seems localised to certain areas / pads and not entire boards. In some places, soldering is a breeze/joy, in others, solder just won't stick to the pad, only the component leg (I'm PTH).
I didn't have this issue with PCBway, although I chose HASL lead free, so not the same finish.
The reason I went for them was that PCBway start charging an awful lot for multiple PCBs.
Order 10 pieces of one design or 5 pieces of two designs of the same physical size, shipping shouldn't change: volume and weight are the same. But they add another $15-20 or so to the shipping charges as well as obviously increasing manufacturing costs.
My other slight annoyance is with DHL, I get charged import duty and administration charges which hike up the price further. It's still not "expensive" of course, but just not as "cheap as chips" as you first believe. The $25 shipping turns into around $50-60 once our HMRC tax man has had a look - always badly calculating the VAT. Fortunately, I'm VAT registered, so I get some of that back, but can't escape from the £10 administration fee DHL tack on each order.
So I tried Shenzhen2u. Their shipping was far cheaper: I chose tracked order, but not a courrier. Took around 6-7 days, so maybe one or two more than DHL, but for around a third of the price.
The boards however, whilst precise, good silkscreen, accurate holes / pads lining up, the solderability is really bad in places. I've tried cleaning them with IPA first to ensure they're free of any grease or other residues, but some pads just refuse solder. This was with their cheap leaded HASA finish which ironically I thought would be easier to work with, but it's proving the contrary.
What's really strange is that it seems localised to certain areas / pads and not entire boards. In some places, soldering is a breeze/joy, in others, solder just won't stick to the pad, only the component leg (I'm PTH).
I didn't have this issue with PCBway, although I chose HASL lead free, so not the same finish.
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Unsolderable leaded HASL is mostly a problem with unclean/recombinated underlying copper-surface. A kinda strong flux might help you out, typical FSW-32 isn't "strong" enough. FSW-26 should do the job but needs to be cleaned/washed after soldering.
Did you used leaded solder with these boards? Leadfree on lead is highly unrecommended, so a good leaded will do (with some copper)
Did you used leaded solder with these boards? Leadfree on lead is highly unrecommended, so a good leaded will do (with some copper)
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Thanks DM, I've tried both: some leaded solder (although it's quite old) and some multicore rosin-based flux lead-free solder.
It's difficult to tell whether one works better than the other due to the variation in solderability. Maybe I need to get some new leaded solder if they do perish / diminish over time.
It's difficult to tell whether one works better than the other due to the variation in solderability. Maybe I need to get some new leaded solder if they do perish / diminish over time.
You should never mix leaded/unleaded as this may give mixtures prone to build whiskers.
But fixing/repearing/soldering with leaded is always allowed and, if unsure, the way to go. (If excessive old "unknown" solder is first removed. In case of HASL you don't need to clean it)
Actually I only know this issues when plating copper with "chemical tin" and leave it unsealed for some weeks. The layer is so thin that passivation occurs.
But fixing/repearing/soldering with leaded is always allowed and, if unsure, the way to go. (If excessive old "unknown" solder is first removed. In case of HASL you don't need to clean it)
Actually I only know this issues when plating copper with "chemical tin" and leave it unsealed for some weeks. The layer is so thin that passivation occurs.
@Shenzhen2u thanks for the info. I'd not heard of Shenzhen2u. I'll be doing some more boards soon and its always nice to have choices.
Hopefully your issue was just a fluke. And of course the language barrier being what it is, its usually pretty difficult to get things resolved satisfactorily. A lot of US companies like e-teknet have their manufacturing facilities in China, which at least means they can mitigate issues for you. But for prototype quantities, who can afford the typically ridiculous NRE charges of companies like that.
Regarding the up-tic in prices from PCBWAY, I wonder if the recent turmoil in China financial markets and currency values are to blam. If so, I guess it will eventually affect all of these china PCB mfgrs.
Hopefully your issue was just a fluke. And of course the language barrier being what it is, its usually pretty difficult to get things resolved satisfactorily. A lot of US companies like e-teknet have their manufacturing facilities in China, which at least means they can mitigate issues for you. But for prototype quantities, who can afford the typically ridiculous NRE charges of companies like that.
Regarding the up-tic in prices from PCBWAY, I wonder if the recent turmoil in China financial markets and currency values are to blam. If so, I guess it will eventually affect all of these china PCB mfgrs.
I found out about them from Vincent77 and he said he had issues too (in his LDR preamp thread). So it sounds like it wasn't a one-off and other boards have had the issue.
I had several boards made by them, but I've only used one type. If they were pannelled, then maybe my other boards are from a different sheet? I'll try soldering another one tonight and report back.
Despite the low solderability in places, the boards do seem more resistant to rework - my lead-free HASL boards from PCBware are pretty much useless and the pads come off far too easily after more than one heat cycle with an iron. Again, maybe the differece is due to the finish.
I had several boards made by them, but I've only used one type. If they were pannelled, then maybe my other boards are from a different sheet? I'll try soldering another one tonight and report back.
Despite the low solderability in places, the boards do seem more resistant to rework - my lead-free HASL boards from PCBware are pretty much useless and the pads come off far too easily after more than one heat cycle with an iron. Again, maybe the differece is due to the finish.
10 for the same price as 5 from pcbway
Here is a pcbway tip: sometimes a quantity of 10 is exactly the same price as a quantity of 5. I just ran into this with an order going out tonight. I also ran into it on my last order a few weeks ago with a smaller board. Worthwhile to play around with their quoter webpage a bit for any size or type of board.
This board is 100mm x 65mm, 4 layers. Either a qty 5 or 10 is $49 for the board and $25 for the DHL. Going on up to a quantity of 15 though causes the price of both the board and DHL to go up. I would normally just get 5 of a development board like this given the likelihood of errors, but hey if 10 are the same price, 10 it is! Hi-tech beer coasters.
Here is a pcbway tip: sometimes a quantity of 10 is exactly the same price as a quantity of 5. I just ran into this with an order going out tonight. I also ran into it on my last order a few weeks ago with a smaller board. Worthwhile to play around with their quoter webpage a bit for any size or type of board.
This board is 100mm x 65mm, 4 layers. Either a qty 5 or 10 is $49 for the board and $25 for the DHL. Going on up to a quantity of 15 though causes the price of both the board and DHL to go up. I would normally just get 5 of a development board like this given the likelihood of errors, but hey if 10 are the same price, 10 it is!
Hi-tech beer coasters.
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Here is a pcbway tip: sometimes a quantity of 10 is exactly the same price as a quantity of 5. I just ran into this with an order going out tonight. I also ran into it on my last order a few weeks ago with a smaller board. Worthwhile to play around with their quoter webpage a bit for any size or type of board.
This board is 100mm x 65mm, 4 layers. Either a qty 5 or 10 is $49 for the board and $25 for the DHL. Going on up to a quantity of 15 though causes the price of both the board and DHL to go up. I would normally just get 5 of a development board like this given the likelihood of errors, but hey if 10 are the same price, 10 it is!
I noticed this too.
I also have a nice collection of beer coasters, although mine are only half the tech of yours (2 layer)
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