I'm with Dave in not being the biggest fan of passive radiators / ABRs. They can work well, but from my POV, their primary use is in situations where your tuning alignment calls for a very low Fb in a small box volume, and regular vents may not be practical due to excessive length (or or would have an excessively narrow cross section).
T/S vented boxes (which are not actually the same as a pre-T/S bass reflex) assume Helmholtz resonant conditions, i.e. a uniform internal air particle density and no eigenmodes present. Water Buffalo and the larger Seastack enclosure Dave & Chris built are mass loaded quarter wave variations (MLTLs) which are designed to actively generate and incorporate / account for the longitudinal eigenmode as part of their alignment. Thus the physical dimensions / proportions of the enclosure rather than just the internal air volume, are functional; you cannot move the driver or vent position for example as this will alter the load behaviour.
Thanx! Really technicall stuff, I'll stick to what you pro's say and advice! Thanx Dave and Scott. Really looking forward to the double front ms11's
I live in a small house(960sqft) and it has been hard to get the audio "just right". I was looking at some soundbars that can emulate surround sound due to my struggles. However, I got to thinking about using fullrange drivers. Would the Alpair 11MS or 7MS need a midwoofer to be able to handle movies? I listen to music on my system as well but was thinking that if I did a 7MS with a 6" Midwoofer to get down to 80hz would maybe get me a pretty good system or maybe just do the 11MS and cross to the sub a bit higher than I normally would, maybe around 110hz?
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
That can be made to work.
WAW for the LR and FR for centre and surrounds.
Or easy to get them down to 80 Hz. In a reflex they have about the same reach, but the larger cone can move more air, so if you aren’t playing movies too loud would XO to a sub(s) for the atmosphere effects.
A 6” midwoofer can get into the 30s typically but limited levels. And they go pretty high so could be XOed higher to allow the LR to be able to play louder.
Or one could look to a twin driver mains (FR or 1.5 wayish) to give move bass level capability.
Lots of ways to skin the cat.
What kind of box size limits do you have?
dave
WAW for the LR and FR for centre and surrounds.
Or easy to get them down to 80 Hz. In a reflex they have about the same reach, but the larger cone can move more air, so if you aren’t playing movies too loud would XO to a sub(s) for the atmosphere effects.
A 6” midwoofer can get into the 30s typically but limited levels. And they go pretty high so could be XOed higher to allow the LR to be able to play louder.
Or one could look to a twin driver mains (FR or 1.5 wayish) to give move bass level capability.
Lots of ways to skin the cat.
What kind of box size limits do you have?
dave
My nostromo's big boxes are standimg next to my tv. They will distroy every soundbar on pure soundquality. You can maby make them as a closed box and match with subwoofer. I dont feel the need. Their low is on par with a 6" woofer from other companies. I have a rather big living room, hogh seeling. Dont feel the need to use a sub. I think doubling the drivers (2 per side) will give you mutch more. The singel driver concept is perfect for dialog. Amd they are very fast. And good midbass detail can let u forget about the need to dig very deep
Watching the h8full 8 is a pure delight with these speakers. They have a way to give a good sence of the atmosfere.it just sounds very naturel and true. The ms11's have a very big dispersion. Due to their build
Depending how loud you want to listen, and the listening distance, the 7ms crossed to a sub at 80hz might be able to work. They can go pretty loud on all but the bassiest tracks. But if you want the extra headroom for loud listening 11ms would probably be better as you wouldn't have to worry about excess excursion. Haven't heard the 11ms personally, just the 7ms. I reckon the 7ms would be very good when crossed higher to a midwoofer, but then it's extra cost and complexity, however probably a more well rounded speaker for a variety of things. I think either option will be better than any soundbar
I honestly don't listen that loud. I have a 4 ear old and 2 year old that go to bed around 7pm. I care more about soundstage and intelligibility than output as long as it gets loud enough.
Couple thoughts regarding the Alpair 11MS and how they compare to the Eikona 2s. First thing that jumps out right away is the presentation of the 11MS are more forward the the Eikonas. The soundstage is not as wide and open as the Eikonas but rather further into the room toward the listener. They are extremely detailed and do seem to have more sparkle up top. The Eikonas are just as detailed but have more of a relaxed feel to them. When listening to vocals the 11MS will present the lead voices front and center and 10 feet in front of the instruments and percussion where as the Eikonas present the lead further back, standing amongst the back up instruments and with slightly wider soundstage. The 11MS do have a much wider sweet spot then the Eikonas and really are impressive in that regard.
If I had to choose between the 2 drivers I would likely go with the Eikonas if price was similar(which it is not and also I'm used to their sound over 2 years now) but would absolutely have no issues living with the 11MS. Unless comparing the 2 back to back I would suggest the differences between them are nearly indistinguishable.
If you take into account the $85 USD for the 11MS, this is a complete no brainer!!
If I had to choose between the 2 drivers I would likely go with the Eikonas if price was similar(which it is not and also I'm used to their sound over 2 years now) but would absolutely have no issues living with the 11MS. Unless comparing the 2 back to back I would suggest the differences between them are nearly indistinguishable.
If you take into account the $85 USD for the 11MS, this is a complete no brainer!!
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That’s a very interesting read, I have the 11ms & absolutely love them
Wow, those Eikona cabinets are absolutely gorgeous, did you make them yourself?
Thank you! Yes I built them my self. There is a full write up on EJ Jordans website under Blog. You will have to go back a ways as they were built in Jan 2018.. They are crossed at 120Hz to the Seas subs. Absolutely my favorite setup to date!
11opas,
I echo Jason Shep's comments - the Eikona wideband + woofer speaker looks very nice.
If I recall correctly you had a set of Alpair 7.3 speakers (towers with their front baffle curving to meet the top) also in similar light colored veneer?
I echo Jason Shep's comments - the Eikona wideband + woofer speaker looks very nice.
If I recall correctly you had a set of Alpair 7.3 speakers (towers with their front baffle curving to meet the top) also in similar light colored veneer?
Yes, they were Alpair 7.3 Bi-pole MLTL floorstanders. I sold those to a friend. When ever I'm over I get him to fire them up and we sit down for a listen.. They surprise me every time! Really good as well.
I've just upgraded my Pluvia 7s to the 7MS in my WAW system (8" mid woofer). They sound very nice 🙂
You can see them here with the Pluvia 7s, the 7MS fit right in.
Full Range Speaker Photo Gallery
Monacor SPH 8M in 46 litre bass reflex and the Mark Audio in a mid-tweeter transmission line. Crossed at about 300Hz or so. Currently 2nd order passive crossover.
Full Range Speaker Photo Gallery
Monacor SPH 8M in 46 litre bass reflex and the Mark Audio in a mid-tweeter transmission line. Crossed at about 300Hz or so. Currently 2nd order passive crossover.