There's a definite change in the presentation of the sound when I use the analog inputs and having that extra conversion, compared to connecting USB input to the computer.
I'm not alone on this. Plenty of reports about this online.
It feels like it sucks out some of the life out of the music and dulls it.
Never tried to measure it... Not sure if REW would pick this up, maybe...
I might try.. But I would need a very quiet time at home, and that's always a tough thing to get...
It's mostly a matter of time and energy, I currently have somewhere around 5000 - 6000 flac files on my cloud back up server and on the HAP, I also have about half that on the laptop, but the drivers are not installed. I have also not configured Volumio so there is some work ahead.
On the converter issue, it seems unlikely that the ones in this unit do as much damage to the sound as the analog parametric equalizers it replaced, but my system design is biased towards analog sources.
I have now read through this thread and amirm's tests of SHD and 2x4HD and discussions at ASR pages. Other tests of 2x4, 4x10HD and 2x4HD are in my memory too.
It is clear, that just putting a black box between source and amp(s) does not make sound any better per se. But if the (master of the) box has a mission and task(s) to perform, small miracles will happen. Multi-way xo with eq and delay control gives much more room to play than passive xo. Analog active xo/eq are rare and often don't measure as well as dsp.
It is possible to do xo, eq and FIR with a computer, and in digital chain. But in many cases (like myself) using many analog and digital sources and having many end-users, transparency and ease of use are primary factors. For multi-way speakers, DA happes in some soundcard of multiple dacs, which are not perfect. Multiple dacs usually don't have master clock either.
I have 3 different systems that utilize minidsp products now and none of them is fully digital. My main speakers are in the living room, where we listen to LP/riaa, CD, FM-radio, Spotify via MusicCast, laptop via external dac, HDTV, HD-box etc. The AV-receiver is the main unit through which all these are connected and volume adjusted. It's analalog/RCA FL/FR outs go to minidsp 4x10HD, and from there to 4 2-channel ICEPower amps. Minidsp and amps have power on 24/7, now almost continously for five years without problems! When listening to multichannel, The AV-receiver works as amp for C and rear channels delayed, no need for SW.
The other full-time system is funny - mainly PC with dac or CD as source a PrimaLuna tube preamp is main unit with volume control. Also the dac has volume control (and HP amp). Preamp is connected to minidsp 2x4HD with RCA. It makes just LR2 xo to subwoofer and main speakers (their amps) and some low Q eq.
Third "system" is two minidsp 2x4HD as xo/eq/delay control for 3-way active speakers or any project or ad hoc test purposes. They get analog or usb signal.
Only problem with noise was with 4x10HD, and it was solved by using shielded RCA cables. Speakers can play at 110dB, but are silent without signal. I and my friends have never heard any kind of degradation of sound quality, with any of my minidsp systems.
My AINOgradient speakers with minidsp 4x10HD were voted to have best sound at a national diy-audio meeting in 2015. No room-eq for modes was needed!
SHD is technically much better unit than 4x10HD, but the price gets doubled. Perhaps I would choose it now, but I can't see any reason to abandon my workhorse to get a little better performance, which I very much doubt of hearing!
It is clear, that just putting a black box between source and amp(s) does not make sound any better per se. But if the (master of the) box has a mission and task(s) to perform, small miracles will happen. Multi-way xo with eq and delay control gives much more room to play than passive xo. Analog active xo/eq are rare and often don't measure as well as dsp.
It is possible to do xo, eq and FIR with a computer, and in digital chain. But in many cases (like myself) using many analog and digital sources and having many end-users, transparency and ease of use are primary factors. For multi-way speakers, DA happes in some soundcard of multiple dacs, which are not perfect. Multiple dacs usually don't have master clock either.
I have 3 different systems that utilize minidsp products now and none of them is fully digital. My main speakers are in the living room, where we listen to LP/riaa, CD, FM-radio, Spotify via MusicCast, laptop via external dac, HDTV, HD-box etc. The AV-receiver is the main unit through which all these are connected and volume adjusted. It's analalog/RCA FL/FR outs go to minidsp 4x10HD, and from there to 4 2-channel ICEPower amps. Minidsp and amps have power on 24/7, now almost continously for five years without problems! When listening to multichannel, The AV-receiver works as amp for C and rear channels delayed, no need for SW.
The other full-time system is funny - mainly PC with dac or CD as source a PrimaLuna tube preamp is main unit with volume control. Also the dac has volume control (and HP amp). Preamp is connected to minidsp 2x4HD with RCA. It makes just LR2 xo to subwoofer and main speakers (their amps) and some low Q eq.
Third "system" is two minidsp 2x4HD as xo/eq/delay control for 3-way active speakers or any project or ad hoc test purposes. They get analog or usb signal.
Only problem with noise was with 4x10HD, and it was solved by using shielded RCA cables. Speakers can play at 110dB, but are silent without signal. I and my friends have never heard any kind of degradation of sound quality, with any of my minidsp systems.
My AINOgradient speakers with minidsp 4x10HD were voted to have best sound at a national diy-audio meeting in 2015. No room-eq for modes was needed!
SHD is technically much better unit than 4x10HD, but the price gets doubled. Perhaps I would choose it now, but I can't see any reason to abandon my workhorse to get a little better performance, which I very much doubt of hearing!
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Thanks for sharing!
I'm still only using it as a processor, to utilize the other features requires an ethernet connection which will require some finagling to run to the router, fortunately it is doable if I am sufficiently motivated.
I got the bill for import duty yesterday, a whopping $22.29 (1.5% plus fees) so not yet under the new tariff regimen for those here in the U.S. who might want to get one. Shipping was $20.00..
I'm still only using it as a processor, to utilize the other features requires an ethernet connection which will require some finagling to run to the router, fortunately it is doable if I am sufficiently motivated.
I got the bill for import duty yesterday, a whopping $22.29 (1.5% plus fees) so not yet under the new tariff regimen for those here in the U.S. who might want to get one. Shipping was $20.00..
Still experimenting.. I've discovered that the backside processing is not disabled during DIRAC calibration measurements which makes sense, and that is explained in the manual, but I missed it initially or failed to grasp it fully. It's obviously important to do that.
I ran a new measurement with the PEQ disabled and save auto-target, room_feel and harman target curves. I still prefer the room feel curve.
I'm hoping they will have firmware updates soon, my unit hard latched up after the dirac session shorly after I connected the SHD interface to it over WIFI in order to adjust PEQ parameters to my preferences. This required a power cycle to resolve. (No response to front panel, WIFI or remote.) The audio path is well behaved and nothing bad came out of the unit during this or other problems with the remote synchronization.
I ran a new measurement with the PEQ disabled and save auto-target, room_feel and harman target curves. I still prefer the room feel curve.
I'm hoping they will have firmware updates soon, my unit hard latched up after the dirac session shorly after I connected the SHD interface to it over WIFI in order to adjust PEQ parameters to my preferences. This required a power cycle to resolve. (No response to front panel, WIFI or remote.) The audio path is well behaved and nothing bad came out of the unit during this or other problems with the remote synchronization.
Didn't see a lot of firmware updates on the 2x4HD... mine acts up once a while and "forgets" its settings, or USB connection drops. I have to turn it off and back on again (power cycle) to get it going.
I had some USB WIFI bridge drops initially, but that no longer seems to occur.
No problems today at all, but I have not been playing with it much. I did adjust the PEQ a bit tonight, sounded a bit too dark because of my experimentation with the PEQ yesterday.
I have contacted their technical help line and I hope to hear back from them soon. It is not hard to get it to crash so I imagine they are going to have to fix this. Fingers crossed as to whether it is easy to update over USB, it may not be possible at all depending on what sort of boot loader they did/did not implement. I can do a JTAG update if necessary but that would require the acquisition of hardware and the appropriate IDE or loader. I don't even know if the onboard quadcore ARM controls this functionality or not, but it seems logical to have it do so in addition to running Volumio - which I still have not been able to try because I have connect the SHD via ethernet to the router to use it.)
No problems today at all, but I have not been playing with it much. I did adjust the PEQ a bit tonight, sounded a bit too dark because of my experimentation with the PEQ yesterday.
I have contacted their technical help line and I hope to hear back from them soon. It is not hard to get it to crash so I imagine they are going to have to fix this. Fingers crossed as to whether it is easy to update over USB, it may not be possible at all depending on what sort of boot loader they did/did not implement. I can do a JTAG update if necessary but that would require the acquisition of hardware and the appropriate IDE or loader. I don't even know if the onboard quadcore ARM controls this functionality or not, but it seems logical to have it do so in addition to running Volumio - which I still have not been able to try because I have connect the SHD via ethernet to the router to use it.)
I filed a bug report yesterday and today they uploaded an updated firmware package to the site and sent me a beta SHD interface to try.
The funky remote behavior is fixed, and the SHD utility connects much more quickly.
In a concerted effort to break things I was unsuccessful. Seems robust.
On top of that it seems to even sound a bit better, that may just be delusion on my part.
High marks to MiniDSP for their technical support. Responsive and helpful.
I'm fairly thrilled..
The funky remote behavior is fixed, and the SHD utility connects much more quickly.
In a concerted effort to break things I was unsuccessful. Seems robust.
On top of that it seems to even sound a bit better, that may just be delusion on my part.
High marks to MiniDSP for their technical support. Responsive and helpful.
I'm fairly thrilled..
I evaluated Volumio tonight, after a lot of difficulty in getting it to work I had sufficient success to conclude that I'm not a huge fan.
I had to create a wired subnet to test whether this was something I wanted to mess with further. I connected the laptop and SHD via ethernet to a switch that was also connected to a wireless bridge (for DHCP) I was not able to connect to Volumio via WIFI no matter which net or subnet I connected to. (I was able to access the internet over ethernet and the bridge could see the IP addresses of the laptop and the SHD.)
After a considerable amount of time fiddling around I finally was able to connect to Volumio, but I never got my NAS connected successfully (funny it works everywhere else) so I plugged in a USB drive.
Had the sound quality been stellar the inconvenience might have won me over, but it wasn't. Volumio generates pops at start of play, jumping to other tracks, and sometimes when play is stopped. The SHD itself is rather quiet so the problem lies either in the ARM processor board or the code itself.
The web based interface is fine for configuration but controlling with an android or IOS app is going to be a lot nicer than using it on a PC or laptop.
I had not intended to experiment with Volumio, like many of the other features in the SHD it is extraneous to my needs.
The SHD is well suited to my original needs, but the added functionality wasn't and still isn't compelling for me.
I had to create a wired subnet to test whether this was something I wanted to mess with further. I connected the laptop and SHD via ethernet to a switch that was also connected to a wireless bridge (for DHCP) I was not able to connect to Volumio via WIFI no matter which net or subnet I connected to. (I was able to access the internet over ethernet and the bridge could see the IP addresses of the laptop and the SHD.)
After a considerable amount of time fiddling around I finally was able to connect to Volumio, but I never got my NAS connected successfully (funny it works everywhere else) so I plugged in a USB drive.
Had the sound quality been stellar the inconvenience might have won me over, but it wasn't. Volumio generates pops at start of play, jumping to other tracks, and sometimes when play is stopped. The SHD itself is rather quiet so the problem lies either in the ARM processor board or the code itself.
The web based interface is fine for configuration but controlling with an android or IOS app is going to be a lot nicer than using it on a PC or laptop.
I had not intended to experiment with Volumio, like many of the other features in the SHD it is extraneous to my needs.
The SHD is well suited to my original needs, but the added functionality wasn't and still isn't compelling for me.
It's a lot more than just a processor/crossover. Think of it as more of a digital front end for primarily a streaming computer/NAS based audio system with some analog and digital I/O. Balanced high quality analog I/O is rare in affordably priced digital processors.
I needed exactly two channels of really good ADC and two channels of really good DAC plus DSP for room correction and PEQ. The rest of it is extraneous. The digital volume control works very well, and the unit itself is extremely quiet and free of clicks and pops.
The cheapest pro Audio card with good sound is the Motu utralite mk4 at $600. Anything cheaper from Presonus, Behringer, etc has pretty crappy DA converters. After that, it gets really expensive with RME, Apollo, Lynx, etc... Add in the price of the mic, and if you don't already have a decent computer, you are way more expensive than the SHD unit. Also, the SHD has the Dirac license.
My impression is semi-pro converters are very reasonable pricing. My $600 Yamaha 8ch converter is not much different from $3000 Mytek (sold), and indistinguishable from Apollo (sold). I still have $2000 Apogee Symphony, because it has much better AD to my ears, but DA is not worth to pay the difference. I would buy Yamaha second hand one for $300 on Ebay, if I just need DA. Measurement Mic is only $50, BTW.
Glad i found this thread, it's hard to find owners of the SHD so i thought i will ask a few questions before i buy it today or tomorrow. The purpose of the SHD for me is as a monitor controller + DAC for a pro audio / studio use. At the moment i'm using a high end monitor controller which is also my DAC (Grace Design M905), i have ATC monitors and a Dynaudio subwoofer, but the M905 doesn't have any bass management capabilities, and i need a better way to crossover the sub than the built in one, i just need the sub to produce 25-45Hz. I was able to do this task with a great software called menuBUS Pro but there is a noticeable latency and it is not stable lately (it discontinued just recently so it won't be any better from now on) I see the specs of the SHD's DAC and this is definitely good enough for me.
How is the SHD as a monitor controller? If you turn off the SHD when the main volume is at -25.0dB for example, will it stay at -25.0dB when you turn in back on? When connected to powered monitors, is there a loud popping sound when you turn the SHD off? Is the volume knob controlling the volume of all 4 analog outputs at the same time? I see that there is no word clock in or out on the SHD, how is clocking work here?
I'm not going to use Volumio or Dirac Live, so all i really need from this unit is to hook it up to a computer just once for the initial setup, i want just a little high shelf eq for my mains (output 1-2) and a crossover for the sub (output 3-4)
How is the SHD as a monitor controller? If you turn off the SHD when the main volume is at -25.0dB for example, will it stay at -25.0dB when you turn in back on? When connected to powered monitors, is there a loud popping sound when you turn the SHD off? Is the volume knob controlling the volume of all 4 analog outputs at the same time? I see that there is no word clock in or out on the SHD, how is clocking work here?
I'm not going to use Volumio or Dirac Live, so all i really need from this unit is to hook it up to a computer just once for the initial setup, i want just a little high shelf eq for my mains (output 1-2) and a crossover for the sub (output 3-4)
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