They are not Waaaaay obsolete at all. The only reason they went obsolete was because of the counterfeiting. There was nothing really wrong with them that “needed to be improved by a next generation device”.
A heads up, NTE has closed for good...it was a Philips North America company till 2001, then changed owners.
The people who sold it in 2022 are saying bad things about the current owners, I think that in view of a shrinking market, and NTE itself selling parts of dubious quality marked with their house numbers, the demise will not be regretted.
The people who sold it in 2022 are saying bad things about the current owners, I think that in view of a shrinking market, and NTE itself selling parts of dubious quality marked with their house numbers, the demise will not be regretted.
NTE was trash in 1988
We liked the catalog to use it as an index.
That's all it ever was to me or my kind.
A dictionary of transistors before the Internet.
How such a thing survived after dot com blows my mind.
We liked the catalog to use it as an index.
That's all it ever was to me or my kind.
A dictionary of transistors before the Internet.
How such a thing survived after dot com blows my mind.
Back in 88 NTE was a competing line to ECG. Somewhere along the line it was all absorbed/assimilated into one. We had a saying back then (that’s still mostly true today): “But ECG is PHILIPS, and PHILIPS isn’t worth a $#**”.
They survived for years due to the HUGE profits that the service shops would make on them, because they were 3 to 5 times the cost of industry standard types. The % mark-up was the same, so the higher cost part was “preferred”. Electronics are rarely repaired at the board level anymore - throw the whole thing out, rather than replacing the four burnt out transistors and the resistors that were collateral damage. The original market has evaporated. People who still rebuild/restore/repair good vintage gear and actually give a damn have always avoided ECG/NTE so nothing changes there.
They survived for years due to the HUGE profits that the service shops would make on them, because they were 3 to 5 times the cost of industry standard types. The % mark-up was the same, so the higher cost part was “preferred”. Electronics are rarely repaired at the board level anymore - throw the whole thing out, rather than replacing the four burnt out transistors and the resistors that were collateral damage. The original market has evaporated. People who still rebuild/restore/repair good vintage gear and actually give a damn have always avoided ECG/NTE so nothing changes there.
NTE = ECG for me, back in 1988.
I don't recall the merge year but they are the same thing for me.
I do remember this guy I worked for. He was going to buy ECG parts and I told him, no. Look at the catalog distributor from Montreal, Quebec, they sell Toshiba. Motorola.
I don't recall the merge year but they are the same thing for me.
I do remember this guy I worked for. He was going to buy ECG parts and I told him, no. Look at the catalog distributor from Montreal, Quebec, they sell Toshiba. Motorola.
Yep. NTE copied the ECG replacement manual exactly - along with intentional errors ECG put in. We sold ECG parts to TV service shops and the worse stereo shops. Part quality was basically floor sweepings. NTE was simply a similar game plan. We called the manuals "the book of lies", which they often were. Incorrect crosses. Even industrial service people used that garbage in very expensive equipment.
One horrible practice many people make is "crossing in and crossing out". They will look up the original part, look another part up and if they crossed to the same ECG/NTE number, they would use them. Probably the most stupid practice I have seen, and it is extremely common. You can't do that.
Yes, those parts were so ridiculously over-priced it was amazing anyone bought them. Quality much lower than the GE and RCA replacement parts. Certainly normal numbers (the real parts) bought from distributors were much better, and cheaper.
One horrible practice many people make is "crossing in and crossing out". They will look up the original part, look another part up and if they crossed to the same ECG/NTE number, they would use them. Probably the most stupid practice I have seen, and it is extremely common. You can't do that.
Yes, those parts were so ridiculously over-priced it was amazing anyone bought them. Quality much lower than the GE and RCA replacement parts. Certainly normal numbers (the real parts) bought from distributors were much better, and cheaper.
At one time everybody was in the overpriced replacement parts game. GE had theirs, RCA had SK, Motorola had HEP and those parts prefixed by 271, 272, 273, and 274. They would usually be made by their respective manufacturers, though, unlike ECG which were acquired wherever Philips could get them then had their number printed on them. All of them overpriced, and came in those little individual plastic bags. If something actually called for one of those I found the 2N or 2S equivalent and went from there. I wish I still had my 1982 Japanese transistor manual. I still have the 89, but by then a lot of the relevant parts had been dropped and aren’t in there. You can still look up any old part, but you often get ISC’s abridged data sheet which is next to useless, and you have to go through 15 clicks designed to send you off on an advertiser’s wild goose chase before you get to the PDF.
I still have my Japanese data books, I may have 1982, I do have 1983 and several other years. I kept my Motorola / On Semi books along with the others from semi-manufacturer's.
I was told to throw them away because they would always be available on the 'net. I'm glad I didn't believe this. I think you can't easily find the information these days is due to advertising revenue (Google) taking front seat. The WayBackMachine (I donate to them) is a good resource.
Which brings me to another point. Access to information of every kind is being directed by search engines - to our detriment. Misinformation is very much a problem as well.
I was told to throw them away because they would always be available on the 'net. I'm glad I didn't believe this. I think you can't easily find the information these days is due to advertising revenue (Google) taking front seat. The WayBackMachine (I donate to them) is a good resource.
Which brings me to another point. Access to information of every kind is being directed by search engines - to our detriment. Misinformation is very much a problem as well.
GE and RCA were good semiconductors. You paid for the packaging and references in the data books.
I learned very quickly to go to original data sheets, then look up the actual data sheet of our prospective replacement part. If you needed this handed to you, you should pay for someone else doing your work for you.
I learned very quickly to go to original data sheets, then look up the actual data sheet of our prospective replacement part. If you needed this handed to you, you should pay for someone else doing your work for you.
I used plenty of GE and RCA parts, and I still seek out NOS surplus when I find it. But it’s all been 2N JEDEC, other industry standards (ie. D40 series) and common 5-digit RCA house numbers. The SK stuff was always priced too high for me back in the day when you could get it.
Agreed.
But if the SK part was all you could get, it was a very good part. ECG and NTE was a solid risk I wasn't willing to take. I used to test the parts by sticking their leads through the bag and testing when I worked at that place.
But if the SK part was all you could get, it was a very good part. ECG and NTE was a solid risk I wasn't willing to take. I used to test the parts by sticking their leads through the bag and testing when I worked at that place.
There was a 2 volume set called (?) Towers Transistor Selector or similar...how good was it as a reference?
2 thick telephone directory sized books, must have been 4 to 5 kilos for the pair.
2 thick telephone directory sized books, must have been 4 to 5 kilos for the pair.
I have a Towers for transistors and one for ICs. Smaller in size than you describe.
They were pretty good and covered Pro-Electron devices mostly. I used North American data books for devices here.
They were pretty good and covered Pro-Electron devices mostly. I used North American data books for devices here.
Now that is familiar ... and well worn!
I had replaced data books earlier in life due to that exact problem. I could get copies in better condition than mine at hamfests. I didn't help my books that other techs I employed used them too. I HATED it when they wrote in any data book or in a service manual. We had a photocopier, they were supposed to copy the page and write on that and insert the page in the book if it was important or a correction.
That came from my English teachers / professors. Never write in a book. For a schematic or PCB layout, really important you don't write on it.
I had replaced data books earlier in life due to that exact problem. I could get copies in better condition than mine at hamfests. I didn't help my books that other techs I employed used them too. I HATED it when they wrote in any data book or in a service manual. We had a photocopier, they were supposed to copy the page and write on that and insert the page in the book if it was important or a correction.
That came from my English teachers / professors. Never write in a book. For a schematic or PCB layout, really important you don't write on it.
That is amazing you recall that! I did just that in my late teens/early 20s until the book turned into 'lies'.
lol!
Those ECG manuals were always "the book of lies". NTE merrily copied the entire book exactly. I remember the Sylvania rep pointing this out. He told us there were intentional bogus device numbers as well.
There were so many total errors, including incorrect transistor material (Ge or Si). Completely incorrect pin-outs. Improper device subs were the most common problem, but even NPN - PNP mistakes. It was just silly. It was clear they didn't have a competent engineer or even technician that would check things out.
Those ECG manuals were always "the book of lies". NTE merrily copied the entire book exactly. I remember the Sylvania rep pointing this out. He told us there were intentional bogus device numbers as well.
There were so many total errors, including incorrect transistor material (Ge or Si). Completely incorrect pin-outs. Improper device subs were the most common problem, but even NPN - PNP mistakes. It was just silly. It was clear they didn't have a competent engineer or even technician that would check things out.