I am afraid its same signature as the rest earlier in the chain. Fear of multiplying too much and ending up in a kinda studio type of sound. But its simple to make and test.
Over the weekend i build a second balanced input for the JG-Self that i use now most of the time because it is so convenient and sounds just fine. It has a linestage and two outputs i use for my woofer and for my open bafles seperately
I had found that bananced stage in another thread and it is very simple.
See the circuit i will post here. Both, the phonoclone and the new circuit is shown.
In fact i build it slightly different. I am using 10 Ohm resistors in front of the cartridge and 200 Ohm for feedback. I use a 75 Ohm at the ouput instead of the 47 Ohm shown. The OPamp is an OPA1611 and not the AD on the schematic.
The person that made the sugestion uses 100 Ohm resistors to get 200 Ohm loading and uses an LME49710. I thought this is not ideal for lowest noise so i redisigned the circuit for lower noise. The resistor values seem unusually low but in praxis i encountered no problem. I have designed circuits with low input impedance that sounded fine so i am not afraid to download my 5.5 Ohm cart to 20 Ohm. The OPA1611 can swing 20mA clean so 4 V output is still posible. I think that is more then enough for an MC input. First i could not hear much difference to my balanced INA and that was not fully satisfactory. Both circuits sounded much better then the phonoclone though so i will not use that topology any more. You will now ask what is wrog with the phonoclone. Many listeners here like it very much and i can understang why. It is clean, it punshes hard but i miss liquidity and tonal differentiation. Hellen Merill was not 18 years old when she was on top of her career if you understand what i mean.
Again i was scratching my head how i can improve resolution in my system. First i thought about my LA Audio monoblocks. I use a passive filter in front of it to filter out bass from my midrange-treble MPL panel. An aditional cap and two cheep metal connection plus a soldered ground connection are in the chain. I thought i could solder out the input cap and replace it with something better that also dose the filter job.
I replaced the 0.1uF Röderstein MKP with a 10nF nonmagnetic silver mica. I also spotted a green tantal 3V 100uF cap as cathode cap of the input tube. I hate tantal, they fail easiyly and can sound sharp so i raplaced that cap with two Elna Silmic 2 25V 330uF connected as a bypolar. Now i have only one very high quality cap in the chain and two nickel- gold plated connections and a soldered ground connection less.
The improvement in sound was considerable. More liquid, less distorted and better resolved, more space, more focus etc. I had modified the silver micas with a new accesory. It is two early to talk about this because i will be cornered in no time like it happend to John Curl in the Bybee thread. The people that gave me the accessory have build a measurement device to show the effect but i have not seen this measurements so far and they work on aceptance by TÜV. When this is done, i will report.
I also mounted a different cap on the ribbon tweeter. I am using a 900V Epcos MKV now. This cap is much better then any boutique offering i tryed. Unfortunately it´s expensive. My 2.2uF costs around 30 € a piece. Again the sound moved in the same direction. Airy and liquid with strong and differentiated colours. I also moved back to my
Spiral Groove table. The small Clearaudio majors in treble sparke so first i missed some air on top. That was resolved by raising the Triplanar arm a bit. The Triplanar has a wounderfull repeatable dial for it so setting was a breeze. The sound i got now was phantastic. Still the simple balanced input was working. I only can conclude that it is excellent. When you want a fast and simple solution, try this. Again this circuit is one of the miracles this website brings from time to time. A nice and simpe solution that is so good that you wonder why it has not been tryed more often before.
I had found that bananced stage in another thread and it is very simple.
See the circuit i will post here. Both, the phonoclone and the new circuit is shown.
In fact i build it slightly different. I am using 10 Ohm resistors in front of the cartridge and 200 Ohm for feedback. I use a 75 Ohm at the ouput instead of the 47 Ohm shown. The OPamp is an OPA1611 and not the AD on the schematic.
The person that made the sugestion uses 100 Ohm resistors to get 200 Ohm loading and uses an LME49710. I thought this is not ideal for lowest noise so i redisigned the circuit for lower noise. The resistor values seem unusually low but in praxis i encountered no problem. I have designed circuits with low input impedance that sounded fine so i am not afraid to download my 5.5 Ohm cart to 20 Ohm. The OPA1611 can swing 20mA clean so 4 V output is still posible. I think that is more then enough for an MC input. First i could not hear much difference to my balanced INA and that was not fully satisfactory. Both circuits sounded much better then the phonoclone though so i will not use that topology any more. You will now ask what is wrog with the phonoclone. Many listeners here like it very much and i can understang why. It is clean, it punshes hard but i miss liquidity and tonal differentiation. Hellen Merill was not 18 years old when she was on top of her career if you understand what i mean.
Again i was scratching my head how i can improve resolution in my system. First i thought about my LA Audio monoblocks. I use a passive filter in front of it to filter out bass from my midrange-treble MPL panel. An aditional cap and two cheep metal connection plus a soldered ground connection are in the chain. I thought i could solder out the input cap and replace it with something better that also dose the filter job.
I replaced the 0.1uF Röderstein MKP with a 10nF nonmagnetic silver mica. I also spotted a green tantal 3V 100uF cap as cathode cap of the input tube. I hate tantal, they fail easiyly and can sound sharp so i raplaced that cap with two Elna Silmic 2 25V 330uF connected as a bypolar. Now i have only one very high quality cap in the chain and two nickel- gold plated connections and a soldered ground connection less.
The improvement in sound was considerable. More liquid, less distorted and better resolved, more space, more focus etc. I had modified the silver micas with a new accesory. It is two early to talk about this because i will be cornered in no time like it happend to John Curl in the Bybee thread. The people that gave me the accessory have build a measurement device to show the effect but i have not seen this measurements so far and they work on aceptance by TÜV. When this is done, i will report.
I also mounted a different cap on the ribbon tweeter. I am using a 900V Epcos MKV now. This cap is much better then any boutique offering i tryed. Unfortunately it´s expensive. My 2.2uF costs around 30 € a piece. Again the sound moved in the same direction. Airy and liquid with strong and differentiated colours. I also moved back to my
Spiral Groove table. The small Clearaudio majors in treble sparke so first i missed some air on top. That was resolved by raising the Triplanar arm a bit. The Triplanar has a wounderfull repeatable dial for it so setting was a breeze. The sound i got now was phantastic. Still the simple balanced input was working. I only can conclude that it is excellent. When you want a fast and simple solution, try this. Again this circuit is one of the miracles this website brings from time to time. A nice and simpe solution that is so good that you wonder why it has not been tryed more often before.
The person (that made the suggestion) has some additional thoughts about this, values to be selected vary with the cartridge involved. The actual values used in the referred design (see also here) are 51.1 Ohm for a total input impedance of 102.2 Ohm (the recommended value for the cartridge and the value found as the best sounding in many listening test done by various magazines, some very recommendable) [and of course my own (and big eared friends) listening tests].
One other thing to note is (see also here), sound is not all about noise (or rather the absence of it), a bit of noise
in exchange for a bit of bandwidth or other audible positive aspect of the sound (there are many 
) may be an improvement.Also the LME49710 (used in the diff input stage) will be replaced with LME49990 as recommended by the OP. Please DigiKey make your delivery!
Best Regards,
Frans de Wit.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/165603-balanced-input-all-dc-coupled-riaa-preamp.html
Last edited:
Frans, i understand and respect your choices.
I took the oportunity to experiment with different value resistors because simply copying your circuit whould bring no new information.
I my system the values i use sound fine. My Titan i can be downloaded much without any perceptible loss of detail and dynamics.
I took the oportunity to experiment with different value resistors because simply copying your circuit whould bring no new information.
I my system the values i use sound fine. My Titan i can be downloaded much without any perceptible loss of detail and dynamics.
As I do respect yours, I just wrote the reply to make my standpoint noted, not to diminish yours in any way. As before, I am very happy with your comments, they have proven constructive to be and helpful.
Best Regards,
Frans de Wit.
Thanks Roy, i apreciate your support of my work much.
It was a surpise to many that i am able to design electronics as well. Actually i did not build much the last 20 years but i always watched and analysed what others where doing so i am quite familiar with the State of the Art.
I also had the luck to meet some very talented people that teached me.
It was a surpise to many that i am able to design electronics as well. Actually i did not build much the last 20 years but i always watched and analysed what others where doing so i am quite familiar with the State of the Art.
I also had the luck to meet some very talented people that teached me.
And this sounds like (to me) sour grapes from someone who thinks he's deserving of a greater following than he has. Jealousy is such a unfavourable shade on you Allen.
That comment is **, and not worthy of further mention. No SS amp sounds like a good tube amp, and there are a lot of good tube amps, not just mine.
Regards, Allen
Gee,
And I thought it would be silly to think a solid state design with selected components in a very well developed design would sound like an amplifier that has a much more limited parts selection and uses output transformers!
What people like in an amplifier really does depend on them. Peavey, QSC and Crown sell the most amplifiers. I have access to a lot of amplifiers, Mosfet is closer to tube than is linear bipolar, but it is not the same.
I expect any good audio component to be designed and tested with modern equipment and techniques but the final voicing is up to the designer. Even in something as "simple" as a distortion curve there is a lot of information that is best viewed with experience, practice and knowledge.
What you prefer is your choice.
Cheap shots discourage participation, where some folks add to their knowledge.
Again, my experience is that i like two types of amps. One is "accurate" and one is "musical". In a pefect world, the amp that measures best, sounds best. In praxis an amp with technical "flaws" like low damping factor and high distortion can sound wonderfull.
My theory is that this kind of "audiophile" amps add something to the source material that makes the sound more digestable. I did not measure Allens amp but i expect more distortion and lower damping factor then is posible with a lots of feedback. The miracle was that his amp sounded more accurate to my ears them my technically briliant transistor reference. It sounded more open, more clean, more resolved and more natural. It really crossed the border between reproduction and production. I had a strong feeling of beeing in the presence of the musicians. Allen, you will get recogntion for this amp, maybe more then you can cope with. I simply erase your comments about Nelsons work out of my brain, ok ?
My theory is that this kind of "audiophile" amps add something to the source material that makes the sound more digestable. I did not measure Allens amp but i expect more distortion and lower damping factor then is posible with a lots of feedback. The miracle was that his amp sounded more accurate to my ears them my technically briliant transistor reference. It sounded more open, more clean, more resolved and more natural. It really crossed the border between reproduction and production. I had a strong feeling of beeing in the presence of the musicians. Allen, you will get recogntion for this amp, maybe more then you can cope with. I simply erase your comments about Nelsons work out of my brain, ok ?
That's an interesting absolute comment. SS vs tube is not worthy of further mention? No SS amp can ever sound like a "good" (note not best) tube amp? What are you trying to say?
There are many folks who prefer an amplifier with a touch of even order harmonic distortion.
I had on fellow who liked an amp with higher IMD, he thought it had better bass response. (OK, he played the euphonium!)
I just did a gig where the system had a bass bump, measurements said to take it out, listeners (One fiddler, a choir director, an acoustician... (sounds like a bad joke)) decision was to leave it in. (most rooms loose low bass through the walls and sound thin without a boost)
As to making a solid state amp sound like a tube amp, there are folks who added output transformers to solid state designs resulting in a more tube like sound! Modeling can probably get you very close, but considering all conditions such as output load, power line impedance, etc. you could probably get out of the models range.
So while we can measure accuracy for many different conditions, people can prefer something else, often for a good reason, sometimes not.
Last edited:
I know a person, Prof Zöllzer at the Bundeswehr University in Hamburg that has deconstructed a Vox tube guitar amp from the 60th. They needed nearly 2 years and put the simulation into DSP. The result sounded convincing and the procuct, a small box, is much cheeper then the Vox, so that makes sense to me.
Still i find it stupid for High End Audio to build a transistor amp that sounds like tube.
If i want a tube sound, i whould build a tube.
Still i find it stupid for High End Audio to build a transistor amp that sounds like tube.
If i want a tube sound, i whould build a tube.
Scott and others,
What I'm saying is what I wrote: "no SS amp can sound like a good tube amp".
But that means what it says - nothing more, but also nothing less. And I'm NOT saying a SS amp can't sound BETTER than a good tube amp - just that it can't/won't sound the same.
They are just very different animals.
Regards, Allen
What I'm saying is what I wrote: "no SS amp can sound like a good tube amp".
But that means what it says - nothing more, but also nothing less. And I'm NOT saying a SS amp can't sound BETTER than a good tube amp - just that it can't/won't sound the same.
They are just very different animals.
Regards, Allen